Rescue Cert, is it truly a must have cert, or not?

[boulderjohn]

What agency teaches that? There are plenty of reasons why a diver thrashing about on the surface can be in danger. Medical issue, failed BC or wing, OOA, over weighted, etc, etc.....then compounded by panic.

They key point is that a person thrashing about at the surface is not in immediate danger, so the prospective rescuer has a chance to evaluate the situation. There is no need to rush in and start a potential physical struggle. Rescuers are taught to approach cautiously, trying to get the diver's attention and hopefully stop the panic without need for physical intervention. One of the techniques taught is called an approach with quick reverse, meaning you approach cautiously with your body in position so that if the diver lunges at you, you can immediately reverse direction and get away.

 

[Belzelbub]

A diver thrashing around on the surface is in danger in my opinion. In most cases the potential rescuer does not know what the actual issue is. Could be anything from a medical issue to surfacing after an OOA scenario to just plain unexplained panic.

Perhaps a better way to word that would be that a diver thrashing around on the surface is not in immediate danger of drowning. They could be in danger, and they also likely pose a danger to a potential rescuer. That’s been a consistent message in every EFR class I’ve taken. Only render aid if it’s safe to do so. Allowing the diver that isn’t in immediate danger of drowning to tire, makes it safer for the rescuer. Always better to have one victim instead of two.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Maybe the actual moment of "drowning" can be undramatic and quiet.....but the "pre-drowning part" can be quite active...

That's not what the article says. You can search for other articles as well. Google the phrase "Drowning doesn't look like drowning." What is your source for saying they are all wrong?

I never said they are all wrong. What I said was that the "pre-drowning" part can be quite active. Just a guess here......but I'm pretty sure if I chucked you off my boat without a PFD or you chucked me off your boat without a PFD that there would be a good amount of noise and activity prior to the actual drowning...

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I think we're all agreed that every rescue scenario is different and that risk assessment is a major and key component of the rescue process and the training...

I think some very valid points have been made in in this thread.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

And the statement that a diver thrashing about on the surface is in no danger is just plain wrong.

Absolutely correct. Never assume anything until that diver is safely back onboard the boat.

A skydiver with a failing chute is in supreme and inevitable danger. There is nothing you can do to save him.

A skydiver has a secondary chute once he cuts away the primary chute.

A man thrashing around at the surface is breathing air and will continue to breathe air until he tires and begins to sink.

Breathing air with a little bit of foam streaming from their mouth. Maybe bleeding from their nose. Maybe taking in water because the BCD didn't fit them correctly. Maybe having a stroke or seizure.

 

[boulderjohn]

That's a sad statistic. Where did that come from?

It's really just a guess. Here's why I think that.

Many years ago, I did a lot of diving in Cozumel, and the first years I went with the operator from the resort where I stayed. I left that operator when I got tired of people asking to go to beginning dive sites because they were just starting out.

Then I started diving with Dive Paradise, the largest operator on the island, with many boats and many divers. they advertised that they matched divers by ability, and I was frequently frustrated by their inability to put together a boatload of experienced divers. One day they worked with me on this, and I sat down in the office and went through their data on all the divers working with them that week. I was the only one with more than 100 dives.

I did a liveaboard in Roatan last fall, and at the end of the week, they celebrated people's milestones. You would expect a liveaboard to have very serious divers, but only about a third had 100 dives or more.

I live in the heartland of America--Colorado. We are annually among the top 3 states in the nation in terms of numbers of divers per capita, according to DEMA statistics. Only a tiny percentage of those divers dive locally for fun--I would guess fewer than 1%. The rest dive on vacations every year or every few years. It takes a lot of years like that to get to 100 dives.

ScubaBoard divers who have hundreds or thousands of dives may look askance at divers with 100 dives, but that is really a lot of dives for the average diver. If someone is doing any kind of reasonable dives while getting to 100, I would expect then to be reasonably good by then. Looking back at my own career and glancing at first logbooks, I would honestly say that I was a pretty solid diver well before I hit 100.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

It's really just a guess. Here's why I think that.

Many years ago, I did a lot of diving in Cozumel, and the first years I went with the operator from the resort where I stayed. I left that operator when I got tired of people asking to go to beginning dive sites because they were just starting out.

Then I started diving with Dive Paradise, the largest operator on the island, with many boats and many divers. they advertised that they matched divers by ability, and I was frequently frustrated by their inability to put together a boatload of experienced divers. One day they worked with me on this, and I sat down in the office and went through their data on all the divers working with them that week. I was the only one with more than 100 dives.

I did a liveaboard in Roatan last fall, and at the end of the week, they celebrated people's milestones. You would expect a liveaboard to have very serious divers, but only about a third had 100 dives or more.

I live in the heartland of America--Colorado. We are annually among the top 3 states in the nation in terms of numbers of divers per capita, according to DEMA statistics. Only a tiny percentage of those divers dive locally for fun--I would guess fewer than 1%. The rest dive on vacations every year or every few years. It takes a lot of years like that to get to 100 dives.

ScubaBoard divers who have hundreds or thousands of dives may look askance at divers with 100 dives, but that is really a lot of dives for the average diver. If someone is doing any kind of reasonable dives while getting to 100, I would expect then to be reasonably good by then. Looking back at my own career and glancing at first logbooks, I would honestly say that I was a pretty solid diver well before I hit 100.

I did 189 dives, my 1st yr of diving alone. 11 months after my OW, I did the SDI Solo. I slowed down the 2nd year. Here I am, 28 months after my OW, sitting at 315. All, local shore diving, save for 3 boat dives, but again, all local.

 

[FishWatcher747]

I did 189 dives, my 1st yr of diving alone. 11 months after my OW, I did the SDI Solo. I slowed down the 2nd year. Here I am, 28 months after my OW, sitting at 315. All, local shore diving, save for 3 boat dives, but again, all local.

What percentage of newly certified OW divers will get to 315 dives in their lifetime?

 

[Wibble]

What percentage of newly certified OW divers will get to 315 dives in their lifetime?

For cold water sea divers their dive count is very slow to accrue. A whole day will be spent on a single dive of an hour or so. A great reason for turning to the dark side and using decompression procedures with oxygen rich gas mixes to extend bottom times to do a two hour dive.

I dived quite a lot in '22 but only managed 70ish dives with 130ish hours.

 

[tursiops]

I did 189 dives, my 1st yr of diving alone. 11 months after my OW, I did the SDI Solo. I slowed down the 2nd year. Here I am, 28 months after my OW, sitting at 315. All, local shore diving, save for 3 boat dives, but again, all local.

You are not typical.