Suggestion Require Two-factor authentication for Classified privileges

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Brett Hatch

Brett Hatch

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Edit August 22 2024: We've decided not to require 2FA, but have made a few changes. See post #101 in this thread for a summary. Thanks everybody who provided their input on this!


Please upvote or downvote
If you are for this 2FA idea, please upvote this post, and if you are against it, please downvote. Upvote/downvote buttons are the triangles on the right side of this post. This will help us to gauge how the community feels about this idea.

Background
ScubaBoard has a perennial problem of scammers. They usually show up in the Classified sections, or send Private Messages (PMs) to users who have Classified threads up. Currently, ScubaBoard's Classifieds sections and Private Message privileges are granted once a SB account has been somewhat active in the community. But we do not require Two Factor Authentication (2FA) for these privileges.

What is the suggestion?
I propose that we start requiring 2FA before granting access to the Classified section, as well as Private Messages. The purpose of this is to help reduce the frequency and effectiveness of scams on ScubaBoard.

What is the problem?
There are a few common flavors of scammers:

- An existing account is hijacked by a scammer, and the scammer benefits from the account's good standing in the community.

This usually affects an account whose credentials are the same as some other website, and the credentials have been leaked. This type of scammer is harder to spot than the new account, because people really do come and go on ScubaBoard. Legitimately taking a break for a few years and then coming back to sell off some gear is a pretty common situation that's not a scam. Requiring 2FA for Classified and PM privileges would address most of this type of scam, since it would be much more difficult to hijack the SB account in the first place.

- A scammer makes a new account, reaches the threshold required for Classified and/or Private Message privileges, and then tries to scam people.

I don't think 2FA help much against this type of scam. It would put one more barrier up in front of potential scammers, which is always helpful in the same way that even a weak bike lock still helps prevent bike theft. But, scammers can do the steps to enable 2FA for their new scam account, and go on to attempt to scam people.

What is 2FA, how do I turn it on, and why it is helpful?
ScubaBoard already has two-factor authentication (2FA) built-in. It is currently optional, and you can turn it on in your security preferences. I highly recommend that all ScubaBoard users turn it on right away. I strongly recommend turning it on for other websites as well, especially sensitive ones like your email, your bank, your investments. It is one of the simplest, most effective security measures, because it means that even if your password is guessed or leaked, an attacker cannot use your password to sign into your account.

There are several types of 2FA. ScubaBoard supports email-based 2FA and app-based 2FA. App-based 2FA is more secure, and is most recommended. Email-based 2FA is less secure than app-based, but it is still much more secure than nothing. The reason email is less secure than an app is that if your email is compromised as well as your ScubaBoard account, then the 2FA offers no protection. This risk can be mitigated by enabling 2FA on your email as well, which of course I recommend, and do so myself.

Commentary
ScubaBoard members are generally suspicious of new accounts, and are great at reporting suspicious activity. A huge thank-you to those of you who report possible scammers! Please, please keep doing this, it is the main way mods notice scams! The Mod Squad is spread around the globe, so we see the reports pretty quickly, and once we look into an account, it is usually obvious to the mods that they are a scammer. Most of the time, we get word of the scammer and ban them before any scam takes place, but of course we can't guarantee this, and unfortunately the scammers are sometimes successful.

Other ideas I've seen
- Increasing the threshold for Classified and PM privileges. For example, we could require 100 posts
Pro: helps with the "new account" type of scammer
Con: doesn't do much for hijacked accounts
Con: inhibits legitimate users who just don't have that many posts yet

- Make it more difficult, or impossible, to use VPNs to use ScubaBoard. A VPN conceals the user's IP address
Pro: scammers use VPNs to conceal their identity, so it would help prevent some scammers entirely
Pro: if we ban the IP address of a known scammer, it would make it more difficult for the same scammer to use a new IP address and a new account to try another scam
Con: some legitimate users use VPNs for reasons besides scams; such users would need to disable their VPN while using ScubaBoard

- Require a text message (SMS) to verify the account. This suggestion is a bit like 2FA, but uses text messages instead of an app or email
Pro: Scammers would need a phone number in order to attempt a scam. Acquiring a phone number is a hurdle to get over, and often is not free
Con: Sending text messages costs money, and ScubaBoard would need to pay those costs. ScubaBoard also is not set up for this, and we would likely need to purchase more software and some cloud service send out the SMS messages

- Only allow ScubaBoard Supporters and Sponsors Classified / PM privileges
Pro: we'd put a financial barrier in front of scammers, so new accounts would need to pay money in order to attempt their scam.
Con: this would be very alienating to users who are not interested in (or not able to) become a ScubaBoard supporter
Con: this would not eliminate risk from hijacked accounts that are already ScubaBoard supports

Suggestions?
If you have any other ideas about how to address scammers on ScubaBoard, I would be happy to hear about them. You can post in this thread, or you can send me a PM. Thank you.
 
I downvoted.
2FA is great but it's not the answer to everything. I use 2FA for important credentials. I can't stand having to use 2FA for every forum and every other website account that I may or may not use over an extended period of time. I use a private, secure password safe which is more convenient and very much adequately secure for 90% of my logins. I'm sick of being involuntarily subjected to inconvenient login process because 99% of the people in the world don't know how, or don't have the diligence, to protect their online identity.
 
Or ScubaBoard can do nothing, and leave it up to the buyer to be an adult and take precautions with regards to whom they buy from. When you purchase an item from an unknown source across the space we call the internet, there is always risk....I don't believe ScubaBoard needs to take on the burden or accountability of mitigating that risk...the one doing the purchasing is ultimately accountable for how, where, when, and to whom they send their money.

Caveat Emptor.

-Z
 
I think @Zef brings up a good point. Is the problem really that significant? How much is lost in a given year? How many scammers are there?

Another thought, is it technically possible to show the last 10 logins from a user with geoip locations? Or to flag users who use a VPN during the post (e.g. Warning: this user is using a VPN to post and that is an indication that they may be a scammer.).
 
Upvote registered.

I think any steps to tighten up ScubaBoard are good steps.

The expansion of the board with an excessive number of sub-forums and the permissiveness for unhealthy discourse in the interest of increased site traffic to attract ad revenue all have unintended consequences. I think vulnerability to scammers is one of them.

I simply don't see the same problems on other forums that we have here.
 
I would prefer Classifieds be opt in like the pub at which point you can do in-depth security checks prior to authorization if you like.

I come to SB for broad discussions about diving, especially dive travel. The easiest way to interact is via New Posts including PMs. Classifieds just clutters things up.

I have no issue with 2FA for financial related sites etc. but regular message boards like SB…not so much. That said I’m currently not a “supporter” so you’re gonna do what you’re gonna do. All IMHO, YMMV.
 
Can you do a 2fa for just posts in the classifieds?
IE in order for a post to be public it reqires a code?

The biggest issue is acounts being taken over vs new accounts.

vetting a new account selling something takes a buyer 30s but has been an 'issue' for 20 years of internet sales.
 
I think you are less likely to have scammers if all shipped transactions had to go through a single payment system that protects buyers. The current best option is for buyers to use a payment method that protects them in case of fraud.

I don't know what types of 2FA scuba board uses/can use, but it seems unwise to talk about it on the web. 2FA works, but has an ongoing cost/burden. If you are a bank or protecting a corporate network 2FA makes sense. For scubaboard, it might just provide a false sense of security and be a speed bump for scammers.
 
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Just NO.

Some of us don't live with out phones up our butts 24/7 like the new kids today do.

I despised having to stop everything I'm doing and go hunt down my iPhone to get their "secret code" to log in to iCloud+. For that reason, I canceled iCloud and use Filen cloud. Apple can keep their hassle and I'll keep my $2.99 per month.
 
Just NO.

Some of us don't live with out phones up our butts 24/7 like the new kids today do.

I despised having to stop everything I'm doing and go hunt down my iPhone to get their "secret code" to log in to iCloud+. For that reason, I canceled iCloud and use Filen cloud. Apple can keep their hassle and I'll keep my $2.99 per month.
Oh yeah I totally agree “they can steal my identity but they’ll never steal my freedom”
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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