rented out of date tanks

[rjchandler]

thanks for the replies guys...one more question, i rented an entire gear kit from them, should i expect a refund for all of it, or just the tank rental...i guess how big a deal is this?

Well the tank was safe - it didn't explode.

And don't get embarassed if there is a hydro stamp that you weren't able to find. I really don't see a reason to be angry.

You were able to get the other tank filled. you did 3 dives? you used the b"bad" tank once. Why should you get a refund?

 

[wedivebc]

You didn't disclose your location, which makes a BIG difference.
Down here in the US a hydro is needed only if the bottle is used in interstate transport. "Technically" a person can even weld up their own tanks out of junkyard scrap & be legal, assuming they could find someone with a compressor nuts enough to fill it.

Wow! thanks for the warning Bob.

 

[wedivebc]

Full Refund! The LDS could be paying quite a bit more than the profit made on that rental.

Yeah but the issue is not profit it's customer service and concern for customer safety. If people operating in the dive business take chances with customer safety how long before government steps in and starts regulating what should just be common sense.
I remember when seatbelts and motorcycle helmets were optional.
There is too much of this kind of crap going on in the scuba industry and I for one think it's time it stopped. Make the LDS accountable for screwups. Lets get quality of service and training that goes beyond the bottom line. It's all about the money these days.

 

[Don Burke]

It would appear you can be nailed without crossing state lines, which does not bother me in the least.


TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER I--RESEARCH AND SPECIAL PROGRAMS ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

PART 171_GENERAL INFORMATION, REGULATIONS, AND DEFINITIONS--Table of Contents

Sec. 171.1 Purpose and scope.

(a) This subchapter prescribes requirements of the Department governing--
(1) The offering of hazardous materials for transportation and transportation of hazardous materials in interstate, intrastate, and foreign commerce by rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, and vessel (except as delegated at Sec. 1.46(t) of this title).
(2) The representation that a hazardous material is present in a package, container, rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, or vessel.
(3) The manufacture, fabrication, marking, maintenance,
reconditioning, repairing, or testing of a packaging or container which is represented, marked, certified, or sold for use in transportation of hazardous materials.
(4) The use of terms and symbols prescribed in this subchapter for the marking, labeling, placarding and description of hazardous materials and packagings used in their transport.
(b) Any person who, under contract with any department, agency, or instrumentality of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Federal Government, transports, or causes to be transported or shipped, a hazardous material or manufactures, fabricates, marks, maintains, reconditions, repairs, or tests a package or container which is represented, marked, certified, or sold by such person as qualified for use in the transportation of a hazardous material shall be subject to and comply with all provisions of the Federal hazardous materials transportation law, all orders and regulations issued thereunder, and all other substantive and procedural requirements of Federal, State, and local governments and Indian tribes (except any such requirements that have been preempted by the Federal hazardous materials transportation law or any other Federal law), in the same manner and to the same extent as any person engaged in such activities that are in or affect commerce is subject to such provisions, orders, regulations, and requirements.
(c) Any person who knowingly violates a requirement of the Federal hazardous material transportation law, an order issued thereunder, subchapter A, an exemption issued under subchapter A, of this subchapter, is liable for a civil penalty of not more than $32,500 and not less than $275 for each violation. (For a violation that occurred after January 21, 1997, and before October 1, 2003, the maximum and minimum civil penalties are $27,500 and $250, respectively.) When the violation is a continuing one and involves the transporting of hazardous materials or the causing of them to be transported or shipped, each day of the violation constitutes a separate offense. Any person who knowingly violates Sec. 171.2(g) of this subchapter or willfully violates a provision of the Federal hazardous material transportation law or an order or regulation issued thereunder shall be fined under Title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.

 

[MikeC]

Rented two tanks from a reputable dive shop, went to get them refilled after first dive and found out one was out of hydro...by like 4 years, but was up to date on its visual :icon5: , so what i want to know is how unsafe was that tank, and how mad shoudl i be when i go in to return it later today?

Were you not taught how to read tanks during your class? Why did you even leave the shop with them? Rule #1 check tank for correct size, hydro and vis before handing $$ to the person.

 

[rjchandler]

It would appear you can be nailed without crossing state lines, which does not bother me in the least.


TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER I--RESEARCH AND SPECIAL PROGRAMS ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION

PART 171_GENERAL INFORMATION, REGULATIONS, AND DEFINITIONS--Table of Contents

Sec. 171.1 Purpose and scope.

(a) This subchapter prescribes requirements of the Department governing--
(1) The offering of hazardous materials for transportation and transportation of hazardous materials in interstate, intrastate, and foreign commerce by rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, and vessel (except as delegated at Sec. 1.46(t) of this title).
(2) The representation that a hazardous material is present in a package, container, rail car, aircraft, motor vehicle, or vessel.
(3) The manufacture, fabrication, marking, maintenance,
reconditioning, repairing, or testing of a packaging or container which is represented, marked, certified, or sold for use in transportation of hazardous materials.
(4) The use of terms and symbols prescribed in this subchapter for the marking, labeling, placarding and description of hazardous materials and packagings used in their transport.
(b) Any person who, under contract with any department, agency, or instrumentality of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Federal Government, transports, or causes to be transported or shipped, a hazardous material or manufactures, fabricates, marks, maintains, reconditions, repairs, or tests a package or container which is represented, marked, certified, or sold by such person as qualified for use in the transportation of a hazardous material shall be subject to and comply with all provisions of the Federal hazardous materials transportation law, all orders and regulations issued thereunder, and all other substantive and procedural requirements of Federal, State, and local governments and Indian tribes (except any such requirements that have been preempted by the Federal hazardous materials transportation law or any other Federal law), in the same manner and to the same extent as any person engaged in such activities that are in or affect commerce is subject to such provisions, orders, regulations, and requirements.
(c) Any person who knowingly violates a requirement of the Federal hazardous material transportation law, an order issued thereunder, subchapter A, an exemption issued under subchapter A, of this subchapter, is liable for a civil penalty of not more than $32,500 and not less than $275 for each violation. (For a violation that occurred after January 21, 1997, and before October 1, 2003, the maximum and minimum civil penalties are $27,500 and $250, respectively.) When the violation is a continuing one and involves the transporting of hazardous materials or the causing of them to be transported or shipped, each day of the violation constitutes a separate offense. Any person who knowingly violates Sec. 171.2(g) of this subchapter or willfully violates a provision of the Federal hazardous material transportation law or an order or regulation issued thereunder shall be fined under Title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.

Don't do it under contract with the Feds and you're fine - right?

 

[rjchandler]

So what happened when the original poster took the tanks back?

 

[Don Burke]

Don't do it under contract with the Feds and you're fine - right?

I do not see anything in the code that would let you get away with transporting hazmat on public roads, public waterways, air routes, or rail without following the procedures.

It appears the only out would be a place where the tanks never leave the property and the general public has no access to them.

 

[scubasean]

I do not see anything in the code that would let you get away with transporting hazmat on public roads, public waterways, air routes, or rail without following the procedures.

It appears the only out would be a place where the tanks never leave the property and the general public has no access to them.

We must be off topic...Or perhaps I don't understand how using a scuba tank (with air) involves hazmat...

 

[rjchandler]

I do not see anything in the code that would let you get away with transporting hazmat on public roads, public waterways, air routes, or rail without following the procedures.

It appears the only out would be a place where the tanks never leave the property and the general public has no access to them.

I have too much time on my hands today. This is a sample DOT interpretation of the Hazmat Regs. I removed some names. This should not be constued as a legal opinion by me or them on the particular issue in this thread (if there is a particular issue).


"

Reference No.: 03-0103
This responds to your letter regarding applicability of the Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMR; 49 CFR Parts 171-180) to customers who purchase and transport in their vehicle diluted liquid chlorine, a Class 8, PG III material. The diluted liquid chlorine is in 2-1/2 gallon plastic containers.

You ask if these "will call" customers are subject to the HMR under the following scenarios:

SCENARIO 1: A consumer purchases a container of diluted liquid chlorine for personal use and transports the container in his personal vehicle to his home.

SCENARIO 2: A private business purchases a container of diluted liquid chlorine and
transports the material in a company vehicle.

As specified in § 171.1, the HMR govern the transportation of hazardous materials in intrastate, interstate and foreign commerce. The term "in commerce" means in furtherance of a commercial enterprise. Accordingly, the hazardous materials that are sold to customers for personal, noncommercial use and transported by such persons in their personal vehicles are not subject to the HMR. Therefore, the customer in the first scenario is not subject to the HMR. Under the second scenario, the hazardous materials are "in commerce" and the customer is subject to the HMR. However, the customer may take advantage of the Materials of Trade exception if the applicable provisions in § 173.6 axe met. By definition, a material of trade is a hazardous materials carried on a motor vehicle by a private motor carrier in direct support of a principal business that is other than transportation by motor vehicle. Section 173.6(d) limits the aggregate gross weight of all materials of trade to not more than 440 pounds. ..."