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Why in heaven would the creator of the universe want to be worshipped? This suggests a serious character flaw.

It seems to me that the God who has left such abundant evidence would be content to leave things at that, and not require people to bow down and pay obeisance. This makes God sound like a celestial version of Donald Trump.

I really can't imagine a creator that would want to be worshiped. But I can see those who need a creator wanting to worship him. No harm until some one decides to try to take advantage of that belief.

I do see a benefit in such a belief. There are times when I wonder if this is all there is to life. But, I can deal with my "yes" answer.
 
Astounding, as a medical professional you choose to ignore pathogenic bacteria that have adapted to their environment to become resistant to antibiotics. Isn't that the basis for evolutionary theory? (and please don't drag out that sad disingenuous dodge that it is only a theory. . .)

Or is bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics another of your 'miracles'.

Ongoing mutation & natural selective pressure aren't problematic for me. But there had to be an organism with a sufficiently complex functional genome to maintain & propagate itself. Nothing about drug resistant bacteria bother me in that respect.

Why in heaven would the creator of the universe want to be worshipped? This suggests a serious character flaw.

It seems to me that the God who has left such abundant evidence would be content to leave things at that, and not require people to bow down and pay obeisance. This makes God sound like a celestial version of Donald Trump.

With God as the creator and basically the reason it's all here, it makes sense to orient our lives & selves around Him, and as for Him caring for His created beings coming as a surprise to you, that's no surprise to me, because it would be strange indeed if God only acted as we would have anticipated. Worship can bring us into better harmony with Him. It doesn't have to be about meeting some ego need; worship can bless the worshipper.

One theme I've seen in this type of discussion is that if God speaks & acts in a way that makes sense to humans, skeptics reason He was fabricated by man. Clearly mankind wrote His script, so to speak. But if God speaks & acts in a way that contradicts what many skeptics would have anticipated He would (e.g.: critical of the gay lifestyle), then they reason He's not real because the account of Him doesn't make any sense.

I would acknowledge its existence. I would not worship it though, because the bible tells us that this god is a sadistic, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, blood-thirsty madman.

I'm not sure how that would work though. Like you said, I would be more inclined to believe that it is indeed an alien with vastly superior technology. I do know though, that if your god really did exist, it should know what it would take to convince me.

Since you wouldn't follow Him if you did believe He existed, there's no point in revealing Himself to you. Realizing God exists, in & of itself, is pretty useless unless you then respond rightly. Again we see that even if you were convinced of the existence of God, rather than submit yourself to His will & authority, you would presume to pass judgment on Him according to your sense of morality.

It seems you know enough of God (however severely distorted it may sound to those of us who love Him) to have made a choice regarding Him, even without accepting His existence.

One term you brought up I'll take issue with, though it's a hair-splitting point. Homophobic? Ridiculous. An almighty God of all creation fears nothing. 'Phobic' refers to fear. I think the gay rights lobby has done a slick marketing job snowing the public into buying into the idea that if you don't like the active practice of homosexuality, or believe it to be wrong, then you are 'homophobic' or a 'homophobe.' You're scared of the gays! There are many things I don't like that I don't feel personally threatened by. Regardless of where one stands of the gay rights issue, or the moral position of practicing homosexuality, it's a crap term. Mud slinging, in fact. After all the name calling gays endured, it's ironic to see some of them & their supporters doing much the same thing.

Richard.
 
Baptist.
 
In the end there are no nonbeleivers


Good... and that's when you believe what you want to believe (or not believe) i'll believe what i want to believe... and we both lead our normal lives...

In the end I promise I wont say i told you so... I won't call you a clown or think any less of you. I have friends who are atheists... i don't think any less of them for not believing in a God... they don't try to ridicule my understanding i don't try to ridicule theirs... debates and conversations are all well and fine but for some reason alot of atheists are ALWAYS trying to ridicule religion... unnecessary

and exactly... i never mentioned any evidence... because based on your posts... you would NEVER understand, even if i showed it to you in person... your mind is just to closed to comprehend it... I know better.. people are not convinced to believe... they choose to... and you are choosing not to believe... that's your choice and i respect your right to it... please respect mine... thank you

---------- Post added July 17th, 2015 at 12:13 PM ----------

you continue making ridiculous claims because YOU have not seen proof... pray to a fridge and it will answer my prayers just as well as my God does... i mean seriously.. for all the science you spout you think it's cool to just say something like that... knowing nothing of me, my God and how my prayers are answered?


---------- Post added July 18th, 2015 at 02:58 AM ----------

Here is the question. Who is superior ford or chevy? The answer is moot
First who or what is ford or chevy. Clearly it is a company. You cant touch the company, you cant speek to the compnay. It is a piece of legal paper with the name ford or chevy on it. Yet you have faith that they will fix you car when it breaks because some book says so. Who wrote that book? Some mortal in the name of ford or chevy, which once again is something you cant touch. You speek to the company THROUGH the mortals that are the care takers for the company that you cant touch or feel or talk to directly. And those who give themselves to ford and chevy that make the cars??? Well there is no real proof that they make the cars cause machines make the cars not people. Well if machnes make the cars then why is there a need for unions to pay people who dont make the cars,,, to make cars for a company that you cant touch or speek to directly cause its a poece of paper,,,,, so says the book. How does one reconcile that? You are unhappy with the company and you want to get back at the company, then how do you do it. That is ,,, how do you do it with out having to go through some set of mortals to speek to and for the company that may or may not exist. After all that,,, one must say that this argument iin it self is proof that there is no actual company. In which case there is no company, exspecially within the mannor,,, in which you are trying to define the company the same way as a mortals based on your tests to be able to touch and interface with said suspected non existant company. Yet ford and chevy , as a non existant company, you continue to try to be one with it , in a feble attempt to find something that is above the mortals that speek to and for the company. Your inability to be recognized makes you say there is no company. If there was a company and you cant relate to it or be one with it, then it is perhaps a problem with you more than a matter of company non existance.

A blond after a fight with her BF wants to get even with him. she goes to auto zone and buys a light switch switch for her BF's dodge. she gets in her car finds the BF and follows him till the right moment and she acts to turn her BF's lights off. she tries and tries but in the end she comes to the reality that she has a bad switch. One week later at your local grocery store the enquirer front pages the story of dodge is fake and the proof is centered around the blonds experience with the light switch. Ford and chevy reval in the story , because it has exposed a false part maker.

So once again who is the true/best car maker ford or chevy. BTW they're are only two in contention because furiners just dont count. So says the mortal.

---------- Post added July 18th, 2015 at 03:13 AM ----------

Great comment. Its my opinion that faith is the difference between the 2nd and 3rd dimensions of thought.
Or better yet. a 3d person is every bit that of a 2d person plus more.
I can sleep with that at night






It would be hard for a 2d stick man to comprehend a 3d person...


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Why in heaven would the creator of the universe want to be worshipped? This suggests a serious character flaw.

It seems to me that the God who has left such abundant evidence would be content to leave things at that, and not require people to bow down and pay obeisance. This makes God sound like a celestial version of Donald Trump.
It actually makes sense when you think about it.

Here you have a being so powerful and of such vast intelligence that it can create the entire universe and everything in it, including a species of sentient mammals. This being then decides to reveal itself to humanity in order to convey an important message (the part about eternal damnation and all that). It does so, after having left humanity in the dark about it for millennia, to a tiny fraction of the global population in a random part of the world, through books written by anonymous authors in languages that will soon die out, well knowing that in the not so distant future, humanity will only have ambiguous texts, translated from unknown sources and translated again over and over again, to go on.

It decides to forgive humanity for a mistake their ancestors made millennia ago, a mistake that they didn't know was a mistake and that this being set them up to make to begin with. Somehow, this being is unable to just forgive them, but instead has to produce offspring and have this offspring tortured and killed.

And this is supposed to be the most intelligent being that has ever existed.

---------- Post added July 18th, 2015 at 06:45 AM ----------

Ongoing mutation & natural selective pressure aren't problematic for me. But there had to be an organism with a sufficiently complex functional genome to maintain & propagate itself. Nothing about drug resistant bacteria bother me in that respect.
Ongoing mutation & natural selective pressure is evolution. :rolleyes:
 
Ongoing mutation & natural selective pressure is evolution.

I know the concept. At issue is whether that process came into play upon organisms crafted by an intelligent designer (or not) and what the starting point was; created whole beings, or 'primordial soup.' It's an issue that will not be agreed upon in this thread.

Richard.
 
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A doctor that questions evolution. All my life, I worked with doctors and most of them practiced an art and were, by no way, scientists. You are just another one of them :)
 
And there it is...no discussion on christianity or the existence of god would be complete without a jab at the gays. I'm surprised it took 332 posts to get there.
 
Tony:

Assuming that's directed at me, read it again. I didn't bring up the 'homophobic' angle. I take issue with the misuse of the 'phobia' terminology by some in the pro-gay lobby to smear opponents - in simple terms, 'if you disagree with us, you're scared of us! Chicken, bock-bock-bock...' That's a far cry from making a blanket observation about all gays. Such people no more represent all gays than Al Sharpton represents all U.S. black people.

Richard.

---------- Post added July 18th, 2015 at 12:45 PM ----------

A doctor that questions evolution. All my life, I worked with doctors and most of them practiced an art and were, by no way, scientists. You are just another one of them

You presume to know so well someone you've never met. While most physicians don't do scientific research or hold teaching positions, many do, and those of us who don't have had significant exposure to them, and a substantial part of our education & ongoing learning involves dealing with the peer-reviewed professional journals with research articles, and of course our medicines are produced via science. Probably the most common undergraduate major of a physician was Biology, often with a Chemistry minor. So we get fairly well grounded in science. Interestingly, I did not make an issue of what I do for a living; others did.

Richard.
 

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