Release Date For New Atomic Aquatics Dive Computer

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...so, in English, are you saying the Cobalt is really some sort of overly-sensitive, overly conservative Sunnto mutant ? I've already set my pair up with the most 'liberal' of the 3 user defined settings, and I suppose I could also go in and 'adjust' my birthday ( my age ) downward so I appear to be much younger, which should 'liberalize' the computer some more, although I have no way to quantify that.

I was going to suggest we get hold of a Suunto & arrange a fortnight of live-aboard diving, so we could do the experiment & see what differences there were. But Ron says thats already been done, & the Cobalt isn't as conservative as the Suunto's. Of course it would still be more conservative after the last dive of a multi day series, than it would after the 1st dive.

Having used a "recreational RGBM" computer in the past for many years, I think it only makes sense to know what the algo will penalise you for, so as to avoid those behaviours.
 
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I can tell you this was absolutely not a marketing decision- on the contrary, from a marketing perspective, just saying "full RGBM" would have been much easier.
But Ron, it wouldn't have been true. In fact, for many users, "full RGBM" wouldn't really be true either, in as much as they'd never invoke it's use :mooner:

BW, who provided the algorithm specifications, maintained quite strenuously that "full" RGBM was not necessary and should not be used at shallow depths. This I am sure comes from real world validation as well as from theory. It does not imply any problem with the basic tenants of the model, just that it has areas where it operates more efficiently. One way to conceptualize it might be that at deep depths the bubble factors dominate in arriving at an efficient staging regime, and RGBM is designed to calculate these schedules. At shallow depths/ shorter exposures the saturation considerations are more often limiting factors, and the older tried and true models are more efficient in arriving at a safe schedule- though factors are added that take bubbles into consideration. ..snip..

As someone who has been using a dual phase algo exclusively for all dives, NDL or deco, shallow or deep, long or short, successfully for the last 3 years, I'd have to say it scales well for any sort of diving.

As tissue saturation is a part of a dual phase model, I'm surprised to hear that the older, tried & true models are considered to do this any better than the RGBM model.
 
But Ron, it wouldn't have been true. In fact, for many users, "full RGBM" wouldn't really be true either, in as much as they'd never invoke it's use :mooner:

Sorry if I wan't clear. By that I meant that it would have been easier, from a design standpoint as well as potentially better for marketing, to use full RGBM at all depths. In fact, we did so in prototypes back as long ago as 2003. BW said we should not use this approach- and he provided the algorithm specifications for Atomic. We are not the designers of the algorithm, so I can't provide as much detail as you would like about why this approach was specified. We are, however, responsible for implementing it accurately in a real time system. I know there has been considerable verification and testing that has led to changes in RGBM conservatism and settings over the years, these are reflected in the Cobalt implementation. As it stands, we don't mention "full" or "dual phase" in marketing descriptions. As you observe, most users will not use this recreational computer in the range where full RGBM would kick in. Perhaps at some point there will be a full RGBM version that BW recommends for use at shallower depths- but if there is, I don't think divers in the recreational zone will notice any difference, mapping settings to the same statistical risk levels would yield essentially the same profiles and NDL's we have now.

As someone who has been using a dual phase algo exclusively for all dives, NDL or deco, shallow or deep, long or short, successfully for the last 3 years, I'd have to say it scales well for any sort of diving.

As tissue saturation is a part of a dual phase model, I'm surprised to hear that the older, tried & true models are considered to do this any better than the RGBM model.
What algorithm have you been using? I assume this is in desktop dive planning software? It would be quite easy to compare the Cobalt's output to desktop software, including for repetitive dive series, since the Cobalt includes a "desktop" style graphic planner on the computer itself.

How well full RGBM scales and at what statistical risk levels compared to a folded approach would be a question for BW. I said "more efficiently" rather than better, and by that I'm referring to computational efficiency in the context of a dive computer. Fully iterative RGBM is very computationally intensive. It's one thing to run an iterative algorithm like RGBM in desktop dive planning software, quite another to implement it in a real time system with far less processing power, concerns about battery life, and the need to account for divers doing unexpected things, while recomputing continually on the fly. Desktop software needs to only run the algorithm once per profile, a dive computer has to do it repeatedly and provide quick updates to the diver. In that case, you want the most efficient approach that yields correct results. For deep diving, full, iterative, dual phase RGBM has some very real advantages. That does not necessarily mean it has an advantage in the shallower zone.
 
I can understand where you're coming from with the need for computational efficiency when it comes to running something that requires the number crunching involved in a fully iterative dual phase model.

I'v been using VPM-B. I do use the desktop version for a backup plan on deco dives, but I mainly run off VPM-B live, running in real time on an X1, during the dives.
 
The Cobalt's implementation is in fact much less conservative than the Suunto implementation (as our field testers discovered)

OK, that's pretty much what I was hoping to hear......Sunnto's are my least favorite computers, you couldn't pay me to dive with a Sunnto and I prefer to not even buddy up with another Sunnto diver as I don't need to have someone's else's computer cheating me out of valuable (and expensive) dive vacation bottom time!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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