Relative risk in diving

[scubadada]

I
I am a very basic rec diver with just over a hundred dives. No GF, air (will do Nitrox in a few weeks), PZ+ algorithm. It seems that ot is a good trade off between the DSAT and the RGBM.

Yes, PZ+ would be considered moderate or middle of the road in the conservative to liberal spectrum.

 

[Catito]

I drive close to 9 miles on I-95 in S. Florida twice a day Monday to Friday. Way more risky than my solo dives on the weekends

…feel the same way x100. I drive 50 miles a day on I 95…unless I take the train, and then I have other risks, namely the other riders. I feel safer under water.

 

[Soloist]

Some dive solo even at 50 years old plus (what about the risk of heart attack) and feel perfectly safe.

What are you talking about? Astonishingly I just finished yet another 45 minute weight lifting routine at the ripe old age of 61 with ZERO heart attacks. I’m perfectly fine solo diving in a ripping current to my MOD and shoving my arm in a hole to drag out lobsters. If you don’t have the training, experience, situational awareness, equipment or competence to do the dive then don’t do the dive.

 

[arew+4]

On this one, we have a different approach. I used to do car racing in the past (FormulaRenault, Formula 3, Porsche Cup and Lotus Cup when I got older ) and I took way more risks and chances on a track than in an open road. I never had an accident on an open road. I have had more than a couple on the tracks. Because I was pushing the limits to a certain extent. Because it was competition and there was much more safety precautions: helmet, nomex coverall and gloves, medical staff around (sometimes very limited). I was never scared on the track until the last milliseconds where the accident was inevitable and it was too late. I made it out unharmed. Gosh, that was nice and exciting. I still long for the old times. Even though, some people had serious accidents, very few people died on track. Less than in diving and way less than in open road.

Dody,
I think you miss and make my point on the same post. On the track everyone's has had the same minimum training, and will unless insane behave in the expected manner. Newbies will wear orange tshirts on top of their leathers and stay off v the racng line if they are slow. There will be no head on traffic making left turns in front of you etc. There will be no hard stop barriers on your line of travel should you get it wrong. There are far more incidents on the track but far less injuries and fatalities because the risks are mitigated by design and training.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Diving should be fun and safe. This does not mean that we should disregard the risks. It’s just a bit more complicated than that.

I dive as I find it very relaxing. Do I plan for incidents to happen on my dives? Not really. Can I deal with things with the training I have had? So far so good. Since January 1986 I have had to deal with one life threatening situation for a dive buddy. I've only had three other divers in an OOA and they were all instructors and I did not see that as life threatening as they simply used my octopus to end the dives safely. Apart from minor things like O ring blow outs or a lost 1st stage or a free flowing regulator blown BCD bladders dropped weights lost fins and vomiting by myself or other divers most diving has been fine. I've had a nasty head injury from another divers dropped weight belt.

Me best dives are the ones where I lose track of any thoughts. Sometimes my buddies catch me just hovering near a wall or reef not moving at all, just watching the critters, nary a bubble for awhile as I let me heartbeat slow, my breathing slows, and I get to a near trance state. Totally relaxed. I did my rescue and EFR so long ago I don't even know if I could rescue anyone anymore. I don't count on a lot of divers being able to rescue my 130kg piece of lard especially as I dive with a lot of vacation divers who are OW or AOW. It's only my regular planned vacation dive buddies who are all (except one dm ) instructor level divers and AN/ DECO divers.

It's not that complicated after all really. Dives if planned properly should be worry free really. It is only when you have a life threatening event to either yourself or your buddy that you will find out how you will react with whatever training comes to mind. I've never been in a situation I was not able to resolve by myself. Never been OOA either.

 

[Ana]

This does not mean that we should disregard the risks. It’s just a bit more complicated than that.

I re-read your post during my morning coffee today. Coincidentally, I'm about to get ready to go diving shortly.
It is going to be a solo dive for my husband and also for me, unless a local friend shows up but most likely it will be solo.
Now the dive I'm going to do is pretty much the same dive I've done several hundred times. The last time I planned this dive was around 2008 or so. That was the time we brought the boat here from the Gulf if Mexico.
For today's outting i putting more thought on what am I bringing for snacks and what toys for our dog.
Just like facing my showers without a plan, i do recognize there's a risk of ending dead in the process but when I started ( diving as well as showering) many decades ago I realized the risks and figured how to minimize them, took a few changes in the processes but I got it.
Now I only consider the plan if i shower outside my house... Or dive without my boat. Both events happen very seldom.
Meanwhile this does't mean i should be afraid of the water, showering or diving. It is just a bit simpler than that.

 

[Dody]

I re-read your post during my morning coffee today. Coincidentally, I'm about to get ready to go diving shortly.
It is going to be a solo dive for my husband and also for me, unless a local friend shows up but most likely it will be solo.
Now the dive I'm going to do is pretty much the same dive I've done several hundred times. The last time I planned this dive was around 2008 or so. That was the time we brought the boat here from the Gulf if Mexico.
For today's outting i putting more thought on what am I bringing for snacks and what toys for our dog.
Just like facing my showers without a plan, i do recognize there's a risk of ending dead in the process but when I started ( diving as well as showering) many decades ago I realized the risks and figured how to minimize them, took a few changes in the processes but I got it.
Now I only consider the plan if i shower outside my house... Or dive without my boat. Both events happen very seldom.
Meanwhile this does't mean i should be afraid of the water, showering or diving. It is just a bit simpler than that.

My post was not to raise risk awareness. Rather, it was to highlight to we all have our own tolerance and that we should not judge based on our bias unless there is a clear case of lack of experience/ training. Enjoy your solo dives .

 

[The Chairman]

Individually we often lack hard numbers for comparing activities,

While I agree with this, I think a lack of situational awareness and common sense are bigger problems. People often spend a lot of money to travel for diving and that affects their judgement. We had a ScubaBoard Surge In Little Cayman or Cayman Brac back in January of 2020, just before Covid hit. I was still recovering from breaking my leg in Fiji the prior June, so I knew my diving would be limited by any stormy weather. Wow. It was really bad, but people paid a lot to go, so they pushed diving. Here is a pic of the boat trying to go out through the cut, the day they FINALLY cancelled diving.

During this attempt, the windshield was shattered, and the day before a septuagenarian severely injured his spine. Sure, there was a lot of bravado from the people who went out when they could, but I didn't dive the entire week!!! Instead, I went and explored the entire island on a motor scooter with a bestie. What a blast! One of the best weeks of my life and I didn't get hurt... or wet.

On the flip side, I'm not averse to doing a solo rebreather dive in a cave.

 

[Dody]

While I agree with this, I think a lack of situational awareness and common sense are bigger problems. People often spend a lot of money to travel for diving and that affects their judgement. We had a ScubaBoard Surge In Little Cayman or Cayman Brac back in January of 2020, just before Covid hit. I was still recovering from breaking my leg in Fiji the prior June, so I knew my diving would be limited by any stormy weather. Wow. It was really bad, but people paid a lot to go, so they pushed diving. Here is a pic of the boat trying to go out through the cut, the day they FINALLY cancelled diving.

View attachment 714446​

During this attempt, the windshield was shattered, and the day before a septuagenarian severely injured his spine. Sure, there was a lot of bravado from the people who went out when they could, but I didn't dive the entire week!!! Instead, I went and explored the entire island on a motor scooter with a bestie. What a blast! One of the best weeks of my life and I didn't get hurt... or wet.

On the flip side, I'm not averse to doing a solo rebreather dive in a cave.

Man, this is extreme . Who in his/ her right senses would go at sea in those conditions?

 

[The Chairman]

Man, this is extreme . Who in his/ her right senses would go at sea in those conditions?

Humans possess an amazing alacrity to justify bad decisions, especially if they've spent a lot of money and traveled many a mile to go diving. The winds that week were 20 to 25 knots with gusts much higher. Unless I'm being paid, my max is 10 or so with a max wave height of 5. This decreases with any injury. Yes, there were a number of minor injuries that week. Know your limitations and honor them. This should include a sober assessment of your decision making skills.

I had talked to the guy who injured his spine before the boat went out. He dismissed it all as a "little wind", and said he wasn't going to wuss out over it. Regrettably, he left in a back brace and had to endure a brutal flight in a small plane to get to medical care. I also remember the captain saying that you wouldn't catch him trying to dive this, which is always a good indication for me. If at any point the captain gives you an out: TAKE IT! These guys are pros and will often go out if you really want to go. They usually don't get paid if you don't dive, so don't expect them to be anything but subtle. Many divers simply assume that if the boat is going out then all is optimal. Nothing could be further from the truth and you need to realize that the boat's limits and your limits are not the same, nor do they serve the same purpose. You're better dry than sorry.

If I'm diving, the first thing I do when I wake is to try and equalize my ears. Why get out of bed if your ears are not going to allow you to dive? Then, before breakfast, I check my Ventusky app for the weather and wave heights. It gives me an hourly assessment, so I can see if diving will be good in the am or pm, should I get to choose. If I'm diving, then conditions will likely dictate what, how much, and how fast I eat. This also gives me a chance to figure out alternate activities if diving is out. Ventusky has saved my bacon many, many times. Yesterday, I was asked to go kayaking, but a quick glance showed me that I would be fighting the wind. As the Suwanee is pretty wide where I live, giving little protection, I opted out. My would be buddy complained how awful it was, and was surprised that I knew it would be. It looks better today, so I might be headed out in a few. Situational awareness, along with knowing as well as honoring your limits is a good habit for most every activity.