Question Regulator recomendation

[Khell]

I'd address your list this way.
Yes, as you asked, the Helix Pro is a good deal. But the savings over Mares are not huge, and their future is uncertain.
I think the C370 is a better second stage than an S600. The S620Ti is much better than the S600 , but that's not in contention here.
In terms of value vs performance, the Mares 62X wins handily. You have nearly identical second stages for your backup and performance is super.
But the Mk17EVO/C370 is maybe even a slightly better performer than the Mares Dual, tho' for cold water, I think Mares wins. As your budget permits, you can add the TBP seal/cold water protection to the 62X later. It's only ~US$100.
But since the Mk17 is already sealed you've probably saved money in the long run.

I'd make the decision solely on your expected cold water exposure. If there's a small risk of regulator freezup in your future, I'd take Mares.

If superb controllability of breathing performance is your major desire, I'd take the C370.

Thanks for the indepth reply!

Can I add the TBP easily myself or do I need special equipment?

Sadly the S620Ti would start at 1k for a full kit with two first stages.

Adding the TBP to both first stages would make it more expensive than the Mk17/C370, but if i should add a second C370 as secondary (which i can do in a couple of years), then it will be in legend elite territory price wise

 

[lexvil]

Oh yeah, you are right! I must have been cheap and bought the older ones... I even ugraded two G500s with metal tubes that also fit the S600 (as seen in the classifieds on Scubaboard). Hectic time here at the moment and it slipped my mind.

If the C370 had a metal tube, I'd seriously consider that one as an alrounder. But who am I kidding, ya'll know that I am in love with titanium...

How about a no tube like a D420 or a TFX?

 

[rsingler]

Thanks for the indepth reply!

Can I add the TBP easily myself or do I need special equipment?

Sadly the S620Ti would start at 1k for a full kit with two first stages.

Adding the TBP to both first stages would make it more expensive than the Mk17/C370, but if i should add a second C370 as secondary (which i can do in a couple of years), then it will be in legend elite territory price wise

The TBP should be installed by a certified service technician. But it's not a full service. Just unscrew the top, remove the diaphragm and add the TBP assembly. Proper torque is important.

I don't share the need to have a matching second stage unless you're sidemount doubles. A backup reg set, with or without a second tank, can be tuned just as lightly as the C370. A properly tuned R095 breathes very nicely. It just doesn't stay in tune for a 2-year service interval. But retuning should be a 5‐minute low cost service by your dive shop.

I think twin Mk17EVO's/twin C370's is superior to the AL Elite.

 

[lowwall]

Thanks for the indepth reply!

Can I add the TBP easily myself or do I need special equipment?

Mares will tell you to have a shop do it. But honestly it's very straightforward. There's a video showing how it goes together.


If you speak German maybe you can fill us in on what they are talking about

This is the 28X, but everything except the first piece he puts in (the analogous piece is already in place in a 62X without TBP) is the same in the 62X.

The additional step that's not shown is you need to stop after the regulating nut is in place (the piece with the hex key hole in the center that he takes a couple of tries to screw in), put the reg with an attached 2nd stage and IP gauge on a tank and measure and adjust the IP to spec (9.8-10.2 bar). You adjust the IP by screwing the regulating nut in or out.

If none of this makes sense have the shop do it or get ready for some self-education.

But just how cold is the water you are planning on diving? 5 degrees C is pretty cold. If you are getting in water much under that, you'll have invested so much in drysuits, heated undergarments and dry gloves that the approx €300 to buy a pair of TBP kits and get them installed is pretty trivial.

Frankly if extreme cold water is your goal, then start with the Poseidon Xstream or the Mares 82X or the MK17Evo.

 

[Geo7]

How about a no tube like a D420 or a TFX?

I must try the TFX (ordered the 2nd stage), but its pricey and I haven't tried it, so it's hard to recommend it before that. I think for some people it'll breathe significantly nicer, and others might not notice enough difference to justify the price. I prefered the titanium T2 over the D400, but with the TFX I don't have that dilemma because it is titanium as well.

I also only stated that I love the S620ti, but don't go as far as to recommend it, simply because it is so pricey. I think one can consider expensive regs once they have everyhing else (especially a good suit), and on a forum I don't know who is going to read the advice and what situation they apply it to. The mid-level regs are the easy recommendation. But argh, I dove years and years with just two SP Mk2/R190 and was completely happy...

 

[newman_diver]

On the Aqualung point, even if they go bankrupt components of the company that have value (Apeks) will be sold off and likely live. All 3 of those options are great choices, whichever is easiest to get serviced in your area would be my choice.

 

[Khell]

Mares will tell you to have a shop do it. But honestly it's very straightforward. There's a video showing how it goes together.


If you speak German maybe you can fill us in on what they are talking about

This is the 28X, but everything except the first piece he puts in (the analogous piece is already in place in a 62X without TBP) is the same in the 62X.

The additional step that's not shown is you need to stop after the regulating nut is in place (the piece with the hex key hole in the center that he takes a couple of tries to screw in), put the reg with an attached 2nd stage and IP gauge on a tank and measure and adjust the IP to spec (9.8-10.2 bar). You adjust the IP by screwing the regulating nut in or out.

If none of this makes sense have the shop do it or get ready for some self-education.

But just how cold is the water you are planning on diving? 5 degrees C is pretty cold. If you are getting in water much under that, you'll have invested so much in drysuits, heated undergarments and dry gloves that the approx €300 to buy a pair of TBP kits and get them installed is pretty trivial.

Frankly if extreme cold water is your goal, then start with the Poseidon Xstream or the Mares 82X or the MK17Evo.

I'll have a look at it later and translate for you.

I won't do very cold diving, but environmental sealing just for protection is nice as well.

Now the seller just added and removed some deals, so the legend elite is out, but now i could get a mk25 Evo / s620ti + s270 + spg and a second mk25 Evo for around 850 (the additional mk25 Evo from an other store)

On the other hand the mk17 evo/c370 pack got cheaper as well (570 euros approx) , so that would make it more interesting than the mares now.

 

[Bigbella]

I owned old Jetstreams (before the bronze logo), with the divider plate in the mouthpiece tube. I tried an Xstream on land, but did not dive it. Are the Xstreams and Mk3 Jetstreams smoother than the old Jetstreams, or are they the same when perfectly tuned?

I can get both models to breathe about the same, if they’re kept well-tuned . . .

 

[lowwall]

I'll have a look at it later and translate for you.

Thanks. You don't have to bother with the obvious marketing stuff, but it would be nice to know if he drops any real info.

I won't do very cold diving, but environmental sealing just for protection is nice as well.

It's a little confusing. But unlike a piston first stage, the working parts of diaphragm first stages are always sealed anyway by the diaphragm. Environmental sealing just keeps water away from the back of the diaphragm. This can be useful in extreme cold at high workloads or extremely dirty water if you are careless about rinsing your regs after use. But it has no advantages for the dives that most people do.

And it does have some minor disadvantages of extra cost, a little bit of extra weight, and for most regs (but not the Mares TBP kit), a slight decrease in IP consistency.

Now the seller just added and removed some deals, ... the mk17 evo/c370 pack got cheaper as well (570 euros approx)

Ignore everything I said above. A pair of MK17Evo + a c370 at 570EU is a great regset at a great price even with the serviceable, but not great octo. Jump on it.

I'll be very disappointed if this doesn't get me a thumbs up from @BoltSnap .

 

[BoltSnap]

On the Aqualung point, even if they go bankrupt components of the company that have value (Apeks) will be sold off and likely live.

Please read the thread I linked above about this matter. The facts say the opposite of what you and others are fantasizing about here.

I still remember when DACOR went under, and eventually, Mares bought them. I was a big DACOR dealer in NY then and thought oh great, Mares will keep the brand alive, and there will be no issues with parts for a few more years. That wasn't the case. Mares just put the DACOR logo on a few of the Mares regulators, which continued for very short years. It turned out that Mares bought the failed DACOR name to take control of DACOR's dealer network. Mares USA had less luck penetrating the US market then and bought DACOR because DACOR had a good dealer network in the US. No new DACOR equipment and no parts at the end. Mares offered people who owned DACOR regulators discounts to buy Mares regulators, but it wasn’t free nor a good deal. I had customers who owned DACOR regulators for themselves and their entire families (father, mother, son, etc.) and did so for decades, yet all that went down the drain. I find it terrible to forget all this when the circumstances are similar and appear to be even worse now. They still advise people to buy equipment from a company that has all the information put out in public; the influential people in the industry and people who were very closely associated with the company say that it is a bleak and terrible situation. It appears that AL, especially Apeks, is in horrible shape. Most likely, there won't be a happy ending.

People who are fantasizing about a happy ending and still recommending that people continue to buy AL equipment are thinking/fantasizing that all will be ok in the end. You're having wet dreams and fantasies, but they are just that: dreams and fantasies have nothing to do with realities. There is a very good chance what happened with DACOR will happen again, and customers who believed in the product will end up holding the bag with their regulators that they can’t get serviced, updated, or enjoy what they bought them for in diving.

I just don’t get it. The warning signs are in big capital letters with history to back them up, yet people still want to bury their masks in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong. They will put their hard-earned money into this terrible deal or try to convince others to throw their money in the fire. Wow!!