regulator freeze up
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Lost Yooper
Guest
Keep in mind that a reg like the Apeks TX100 is capable of giving like four divers all the air the air they need at a depth of 150'(?). Rodales had something like this in their tests. I can assure you that detuning a high performance reg will give a single diver plenty of air -- been there done it, no problem.
Respiratory Shock
The US government isn't exactly known for using common sense
. This guy argued the point better than I:http://www.divernet.com/news/items/cold060601.htm
Being a northerner and deep cold water diver, I can safely say that I should be dead if the theory was true. Sea water ice divers should also be croaking every year too, but they aren't. What about the Eskimos? It's an interesting theory, but like many facets of diving physiology, science and real life bump heads again. I'll side with real life 9 times out 10.
Take care.
Mike
CheeseWhiz
Contributor
I believe you have correctly interpreted the comments. Obviously, you have to breathe through the regulator at least a little before submerging, but I believe the point is, if one wishes to be conservative in preventing regulator freezing, you shouldn't be floating at the surface (e.g., waiting for your dive partner to get in the water) and be breathing through your reg.
2¢.
2¢.
I'll jump on the ScubaPro band wagon. I've done Ice Diving with my MK20/G500 and it never froze. Never had a problem with it period.
But now I use my Apeks TX100 Because it's sealed and I believe it is a better way. 90% of the time I'm in Cold Dirty water. Vis of about 10 feet and in the 40's for temp.
I still use my ScubaPro's all the time though. Usually in Mexico or in the summer. But under 50 feet it's still usually 45 degrees or below.
But, I never never never had a problem with my ScubaPro. They make great gear.
But now I use my Apeks TX100 Because it's sealed and I believe it is a better way. 90% of the time I'm in Cold Dirty water. Vis of about 10 feet and in the 40's for temp.
I still use my ScubaPro's all the time though. Usually in Mexico or in the summer. But under 50 feet it's still usually 45 degrees or below.
But, I never never never had a problem with my ScubaPro. They make great gear.
OP
buff
Contributor
With regards to:
"Generally 1st stage freeze ups only occur with 1st stages that are not environmentally sealed"
I am willing to bet Scubapro would dispute this claim since they have primarily a piston design that continously bathes the reg. 1st stage in the surrounding water. The theory being that moving water won't feeze. They seem to be the only manufacturer that has this theory.
With regards to lowering the interstage pressure: I would guess that when divers lower the interstage pressure it's only about 10-15% less than it normally is-that isn't much effect compared to the effect of moisture in the system from the divers exhaltion. So I doubt doing this tech manuever does a lot of good.
Perhaps if you put a one way inhalation valve on the the mouthpiece you would prevent the exhalation of moist air past the reg. components. You would still be able to inhale but your exhalation would would be routed out away from the second stage and not into it-thereby preventing condensation in the second stage and its resulting freeze up. Remember, I thought it up!
So like everything in life, freeze up is summation of a number of factors. Not just one simple answer.
Good work everyone! We have once again made diving safe for the masses!
"Generally 1st stage freeze ups only occur with 1st stages that are not environmentally sealed"
I am willing to bet Scubapro would dispute this claim since they have primarily a piston design that continously bathes the reg. 1st stage in the surrounding water. The theory being that moving water won't feeze. They seem to be the only manufacturer that has this theory.
With regards to lowering the interstage pressure: I would guess that when divers lower the interstage pressure it's only about 10-15% less than it normally is-that isn't much effect compared to the effect of moisture in the system from the divers exhaltion. So I doubt doing this tech manuever does a lot of good.
Perhaps if you put a one way inhalation valve on the the mouthpiece you would prevent the exhalation of moist air past the reg. components. You would still be able to inhale but your exhalation would would be routed out away from the second stage and not into it-thereby preventing condensation in the second stage and its resulting freeze up. Remember, I thought it up!
So like everything in life, freeze up is summation of a number of factors. Not just one simple answer.
Good work everyone! We have once again made diving safe for the masses!
Lost Yooper
Guest
Something that wasn't mentioned yet, I don't think, was the ease of breathing of the second stage. Let's take a TX100 for example which has the venturi switch and the fine tuning knob. If you have that second stage breathing like a dream (right on the verge of free flow) in very cold water, you will run a much higher risk of free flow. The greater the flow, the colder the guts of the second get.
Lowering the IP reduces this flow (quite significantly actually), but equally important is tuning the reg down with the switch and tuning knob. I'm not talking about a hog, but keeping the breathing resistance up at a reasonable level. Tuning an Apeks from 145 to 128 is very noticable in the breathability of the second, but it still gives you plenty of air.
So, yet another tip... tune the second down and leave those adjustments alone during the dive. This is how my T50D free flowed -- I had it tuned way too high.
Later.
Mike
PS. Most of the diving that I have been referring to in this thread is extremely cold water (less than 34F or so). I frequently dive in bottom temps of 38-42F with a high IP, and the second stage tuned up for extremely easy breathing and never have a problem with free flow with any reg. I've been talking about ice diving type conditions where you have very cold water and diving relatively shallow depths. Up here, the deeper you go under the ice, the warmer the water gets (kind of). You might have 32F at the ice and 36-38F at 100' -- big difference.
Lowering the IP reduces this flow (quite significantly actually), but equally important is tuning the reg down with the switch and tuning knob. I'm not talking about a hog, but keeping the breathing resistance up at a reasonable level. Tuning an Apeks from 145 to 128 is very noticable in the breathability of the second, but it still gives you plenty of air.
So, yet another tip... tune the second down and leave those adjustments alone during the dive. This is how my T50D free flowed -- I had it tuned way too high.
Later.
Mike
PS. Most of the diving that I have been referring to in this thread is extremely cold water (less than 34F or so). I frequently dive in bottom temps of 38-42F with a high IP, and the second stage tuned up for extremely easy breathing and never have a problem with free flow with any reg. I've been talking about ice diving type conditions where you have very cold water and diving relatively shallow depths. Up here, the deeper you go under the ice, the warmer the water gets (kind of). You might have 32F at the ice and 36-38F at 100' -- big difference.
Many coldwater divers here, huh? That's good. I am condemned to coldwater diving all year long myself. The only reg that I have ever had to freeze was a second stage, on the surface, BEFORE a dive. It was very cold and the purge button got mashed, really hard. The reg started freeflowing and before I could get to it - the second stage froze up! I immediately valved off the tank, submerged the second stage and repressurized it and it was fine. (This was a non-all environmental/standard second stage)
The truth is, I have seen first and second stages freeze up. I have seen more second stages freeze than I have first stages. I've seen first stages freeze completely over underwater and I've second stages freeze up completely. (Some even blew only "snow" on the surface!) According to Sherwood, the people that brought us the Blizzard many years ago: Lowering the I.P. decreases the chance of freeze up. Raising the I.P. increases the moisturizing effect of your second stage!
Norm
The truth is, I have seen first and second stages freeze up. I have seen more second stages freeze than I have first stages. I've seen first stages freeze completely over underwater and I've second stages freeze up completely. (Some even blew only "snow" on the surface!) According to Sherwood, the people that brought us the Blizzard many years ago: Lowering the I.P. decreases the chance of freeze up. Raising the I.P. increases the moisturizing effect of your second stage!
Norm
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