Regs need servicing...

[SeaJay]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...

Wow, that LDS must have thought you were a complete idiot. Did you call them on it?

No, I didn't... I know that sounds crappy, but I just sorta stared at him and waited for him to say something like, "I meant 'three POUND tube.'"

Interestingly, CristoLube, as far as I know, isn't available in a three ounce tube. The tubes are two ounces. Anyone ever seen a three ounce tube?

On the way home, I fantasized about what I shoulda done: I shoulda opened my save-a-dive kit (homemade, of course, so that it's got pertinent stuff in it) and looked through it, muttering something like, "Lesse... Lemme make sure that there's nothing in here that I need to replace... Lesse... O-rings, dive tools, extra SPG, bolt snaps, zip ties... CristoLube that I bought for $20..."

Mocking your customers is a great way to attract business, didn't you learn that in Bizarro World Business School?

I couldn't believe it myself. Here's the killer... He knows that I own two retail stores of my own... So you'd think there'd be some professional courtesy... Or something. You'd think he'd know better.

In fact, we just let someone go because of a really poor attitude... And inappropriate comments to the customer; and hers weren't as offensive as what this guy said to me.

It's incredible the way that local business is done here. This dork's attitude was only a good example.

They might laugh on land, but you will be the one laughing when you see their dive skills. ("Paw sez I don't needz no finns...I just walks on da' bottom!")

"Vertical" is the norm, huge fins are the norm, and 40 pounds on a SeaQuest Black Diamond is the norm. Not that the Black Diamond isn't nice... But the way it's used... And the skills involved (or lack thereof) is completely amazing.

The net result is that I say things to them like, "When's your next trip?" Their response is something like, "We're going to Cozumel in December." Curious, I say something like, "Uhhhh... Isn't the ocean like 4 and a half miles that-a-way?" Their reponse is something like, "Yeah, but it's so unsafe to dive out there."

It's not unsafe... Their skills are unsafe.

One of the instructors at my LDS, when asked about decompression diving, turned white as a ghost... "There's no way I'd do something like that... That's DANGEROUS." He's been diving for more than a decade. "I have no desire to ever overstay my NDL's."

So what? I thought... Would it not make sense to learn it anyway just in case?

...And that's how these guys work. They oooo and ahhh over every day-glow accessory and HUB system on the market, refuse to teach any dive skills whatsoever, and then laugh and decare ME dangerous when I come in with long hoses.

I don't generally dive with these guys... And it's a shame, 'cause I would really like another excuse to go diving. I would really enjoy another dive buddy. But I don't need a liability.

...I remember my feelings the first time I saw MHK and Andrew dive... I remember that eerie hover that they had... That totally composed and still float that said that they knew exactly what they were doing. I remember my reaction... And it was one of, "Holy crap... Look at that... Hey, that looks like fun." Of course, I was pathetically unable to accomplish the position, and I got very frustrated very quickly. It was the first time I'd ever seen a skill that I could not do right out of the box.

My point is that now that I can do that position with ease (and am consequencely learning new skills) I wonder what their reaction would be to me underwater. I wonder if they'd try the positions... And I wonder if it's really tick them off. Maybe that's why they hate DIR guys so much... Maybe that's why they make a fool of me in the middle of the shop or try to rip me off. Maybe that's why they just shake their head when they see a long hose or backplate...

Because I am a reminder to them that their skills are lacking. I believe that no matter how nice-n-friendly I am, deep down inside they're threatened by my very existence... And angry at me for it.

They don't even have to see me dive. I might not have a clue... I might be totally skilless myself... But just the gear configuration alone reminds them that they aren't able to dive the way others dive... Whether they want to or not.

...And it's a real shame... 'Cause I am the friendliest person I know. I really try to be nice to everyone... It's just so tough when I'm offered a $200 tube o' lube.

You know, come to think of it... There was ONE time that I saw the reaction to "that way y'all dive." The other diver was kneeling on a platform at Forty Fathom Grotto... Actually, he was sorta kneeling and holding onto a buoy line... His body was actually on the platform, but sorta "up" and kneeling at like a 45* angle. And I remember hovering in the murk, right off of the platform... I was facing him in standard DIR position (like a skydiver) and just sorta hovering there. Only the tips of my fins occassionally flicked as I sorta "helicoptered" around to look at everyone on the platform.

I remember seeing his face mask glint in the sunlight and as he moved his head a little, I could see his eyes sorta focus on me and just watch... For a long time. He just stared...

After a while, I unfolded my hands and shrugged. "What?" I was saying...

Later, his response was this: "Next time, stay on the platform... Don't get off of it... I don't want you to lose control of your buoyancy all of a sudden."

Later, he told me, "I didn't like you just hovering like that... I didn't feel like I had control over you."

Well said.

He and I were dive buddies that day. I was not his student... He was not SUPPOSED to be "in control of me." What in the world makes you feel like I have to be babysat? ...Or is that the "norm" for you?

It was that exact dive that he ran out of air and I had to donate. Y'all know the story. Good thing he wasn't "in control of me," eh? I didn't donate perfectly, but it went without a hitch.

My skills for donating have improved considerably since that dive.

You'd think that they'd figure it out...

This is insane...you have to drive to Florida to find a decent LDS...

Heck, I'm lucky in that regard. All I have to do is drive five hours to Ginnie and I've got EE.

Many people don't have that opportunity.

Of course, the flip side is that yes, this is insane. Think about how many people have never actually seen a good dive shop...

Cool. It would be great to have a chain of dive stores like that.
LDSs' must be extremely arrogant to think that people are going to keep putting up with such nonsense. There are other choices and I will buy my own compressor and mixing gear if needed.

Ditto that!

You know, there was a time not long ago when that was nearly the sole purpose of a dive club... So that they could combine their resources and purchase a compressor.

I can see doing that today... With the right mindset, it'd work just fine.

 

[aquariumdiver]

SeaJay once bubbled...


You're right... I avoid that shop as much as possible.

I know the owners and the manager well... And frankly, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Or embarassed to show your face since your on their no check list....How many checks did you bounce there anyway?

...There was a time when I supported them. I got tired of saving the lead instructor's life when he had OOA's, and I got tired of being on dives where he ripped DM candidates to the surface - from 130 feet - because "they looked narced."

If this is the dive I think your refering to I was on that trip and there was no way you would know what did or did not happen with that incedent with 10 feet of vis and from 45 feet. That was also the time you and your girlfriend locked yourself in the room you had "checked out" of and where found by the maid in a comprimising position shall we say? Selfish bastard those of us waiting to follow the instructor home from the trip where delayed more then an hour while we waited for him to try to straighten that with the hotel. And as much as the instructor was embarased by and apologized for your behavior I never once heard so much as a fake sorry from you.

I got tired of taking him out on my boat for free, only to have him ***** later when I ran aground (misjudged tide). He coulda helped, rather than sit and *****, you know.

I'll have to ask him about that one sounds like a good story!

Most of all, I got tired of having every dive turn into some sort of urinating match... With him trying desperately to take control of every dive. It got to the point where I was saying, "Sure, man... Whatever you want." I got tired of having him tell me I was diving unsafely because I did my deco in the wrong place and I got tired of them making fun of my DIR style. I got sick of hearing from them that in order to dive properly, I needed to wear 40 lbs. of weight in a SeaQuest Raider.

Hmm doesn't sound like the the Guys I know at the shop. Maybe some of the braile divers who make a living in 6 knot plus currents and have to stay down wear that much weight. Were you diving with them?

I just got sick of them. The more I dove with them, the more of a liability they became.

I'm pickier with my dive buddies now.

So yes, you're right... I don't support my LDS.

Lucky them! Seems to me your the liability!

The last time I was in there, I was told that my Suunto Vyper computer probably wasn't a *real* Vyper because I purchased it from Leisurepro.

Leisurepro? Weren't they in a lawsuit a few years ago? Something regarding selling blackmarket or defective equipment as the "real" thing?

I got crappy service, backstabbing friendships, and loser instruction. What's worse is that they've tried to keep the local charter captains, people with whom I've had pretty descent relationships, from taking me and my club out for dives. "We want everything to go through the shop from now on," the shop would say. I'm sure you do! :upset: Let's not forget that the club can get people diving for $70 per diver... For a two-tank dive... And you want to do the same dive for $120! Guess who gets the $50 margin? Yes, I think what you're doing to the local diving community is immoral.

What Club? Oh you mean you and your girlfriend? You mean the one that you tried to start at the University of SC and probably would have taken off great if you as the president hadn't tried to rip off the club(at leastthat's the word on campus)? And charter prices have been reduced Last time I went it was only $85 including tanks and weights!

Last time I went in to price an Apeks reg, they quoted me a price nearly double that of any other Apeks dealer. I've given them a shot on every piece of equipment I've purchased... Not one time have they ever come even close to competitive in price.

I don't know about Apeks but I've found all the equipment I've purchased very competivily priced and when I showed them an internet price on a light I was looking at they showed me exactly what they paid for that same light from the manufacturer 10% more then what the internet price was. They called their rep and worked out a deal for me. It was more then the internet price but I believe it was less then it would have been with the shipping.

...And so yes, you're right... I don't support my LDS.

In a year or so they will be out of business anyway... So what's it matter?

What matters is that ****heads like you are the kind of people that will put them out of business. Then the rest of us will have to drive an hour or more to get air again! What matters is that all shops are somebodies LDS and since all shops survive on their local customers, well, your kind of attitude will soon put them all out of business. Then where will we be as divers? Maybe, just maybe as customers if we want a shop that better prvides for our needs then maybe we have a responsibility to talk to our shop owners and educate them as to what we need or want and what we can get elsewhere, maybe we have a responsibility to help them help us? Nah, like SeaJay we shouldn't take any responsibility for anything.

 

[SeaJay]

aquariumdiver once bubbled...

Or embarassed to show your face since your on their no check list....How many checks did you bounce there anyway?

Two.

And they were both immediately paid for, with a $20 charge each, and a voluntary $30 each for the accounting hassle. Not to mention a letter of apology from the bank for the screwup. I went to great lengths to ensure that they understood that it was not my mistake.

...So at this point, either you're Jason, my consistent OOA buddy, looking to pick a fight, the owner of the shop themselves (not likely, since he's got his own bounced checks to deal with) or the shop's been talking about me behind my back... Not good for business.

...And if it's the latter, not only what they've done is illegal and immoral, but bad business... Don't you think that talking badly about a customer behind their back would look bad to other customers?

I'll tell you this... I've heard that song before. It's usually the last cry heard - "how the customers were bad customers" - just before the shop goes out of business.

If this is the dive I think your refering to I was on that trip and there was no way you would know what did or did not happen with that incedent with 10 feet of vis and from 45 feet.

You're right... And I specifically said that I didn't see the "130 to zero" emergency ascent.

I saw it on the Suunto software after the dive's profile was downloaded. Check it yourself. It shows exactly what happened.

It didn't help that the diver that was "rescued" said that it felt like the ascent "lasted fifteen seconds." Remember that one? I think the whole place stopped for a moment to listen to what happened.

That was also the time you and your girlfriend locked yourself in the room you had "checked out" of and where found by the maid in a comprimising position shall we say? Selfish bastard those of us waiting to follow the instructor home from the trip where delayed more then an hour while we waited for him to try to straighten that with the hotel. And as much as the instructor was embarased by and apologized for your behavior I never once heard so much as a fake sorry from you.

Nice to hear from you, Jason. Looks like you're just peeved that I've bad-mouthed you here. I get it... I started it, so you're going to finish it... No?

Why would I owe you an apology? I never got one for the way you treated us. Robyn got pretty sick that afternoon, and so we paid to rent the room for another day. It didn't have anything to do with you.

...Nor was the group delayed an hour. Y'all packed up and left. I bought another day, since she was sick. What's it to you?

It's strictly against TOS on this board to be a sockpuppet... Having two screenames is prohibited. Aren't you also Divewolf?

Look... It's easy enough to settle this... Why not post your dive profile from that dive to the board?

I'll have to ask him about that one sounds like a good story!

Hm. So... You're implying that you're not Jason? Then it looks like the shop's been sharing my business with everyone... Did they tell you that the checks were immediately covered and that I lined their pockets with an additional $100 for the hassle? Did they tell you about the bank letter?

I can tell you the story about getting stuck... I took Jason out diving, on my boat and for free. On the way back, the tide, which we both understood would be in good shape for crossing, had already gone out past what the boat needed.

I put the boat up near a relative's house and lent Jason my cell phone. He called his wife to come pick him up, and he bailed. (He had previous engagements... So be it.) *I* sat with the boat, alone, until the tide returned a couple of hours later. I then proceeded to ride back and do all of the boat cleanup and gear cleanup alone.

When he came to pick up his gear that night, I had cleaned it up for him and rinsed everything off. I did him a huge favor... And all I caught for it was a bunch of guff about how I was so clueless as to have missed the tide. I never once got a "thanks for cleaning up my gear" or "thanks for staying with the boat and getting it back in safely while I bailed."

Hmm doesn't sound like the the Guys I know at the shop. Maybe some of the braile divers who make a living in 6 knot plus currents and have to stay down wear that much weight. Were you diving with them?

Many times. And be careful... I've been chastized here on this board for saying "six knot current" before. They just don't believe me.

Bottom line is that weighing yourself down with 40 pounds of lead doesn't do a damn thing for you except make you vertical, which of course is exactly how you DON'T want to be in a swift current. Being on the bottom is a matter of body control, not weight. Horizontal and correctly weighted has many more benefits.

The reason that the braille divers weight themselves like that is because they have never tried anything else. There's a stigma that if there's lots of current, they need more weight. The idea is incorrect, and in fact, detrimental.

And yes, I've done many local "braille" dives. Some "with them," but most in my own boat.

Lucky them! Seems to me your the liability!

Feel free to call it as you see it. That's your opinion.

Have Jason post that dive profile and we'll compare.

Leisurepro? Weren't they in a lawsuit a few years ago? Something regarding selling blackmarket or defective equipment as the "real" thing?

Oh, please... I'm not familiar with a lawsuit, but you're preaching to the chior, my friend. Most divers here know the benefits - and disadvantages - of purchasing online.

Heck, you did it too, as I recall... Quite a bit... Before you got involved with the shop. Where did Jason buy his Black Diamond? I do recall it was Ebay... His computer? Same. His fins? Mask? Hm...

In fact, I believe it was Al and Patty, the owners of the shop, who first introduced RavenC and I to Leisurepro - right in front of the Port Royal Fire House - prior to their opening the store. I specifically remember them telling us, "Why buy anywhere else? You should check them out..." Six months later, they're running the shop and of course, Leisurepro is the most evil entity they've ever known.

If you want to have an opinion, you're welcome to it... But please spout facts, not B.S.

What Club? Oh you mean you and your girlfriend? You mean the one that you tried to start at the University of SC and probably would have taken off great if you as the president hadn't tried to rip off the club(at leastthat's the word on campus)? And charter prices have been reduced Last time I went it was only $85 including tanks and weights!

Uh-hunh. I smell an affiliation with the shop. Big time... 'Cause the junk you're spouting here is wholly incorrect.

"The word on campus" is that RavenC and I paid for every dive personally. If I recall, the Scuba funding... Which we finally refused... Was 100% given to another club. We never had it in our posession. There were no funds spent or missing... How could anything have been stolen?

Of course, we were still charged from the dive shop... Guess who ended up paying that bill? You guessed it... We did. Personally.

...And that's the bottom line.

Interesting that you'd take the opportunity to plug the shop's dive charters at this point. I wouldn't go with them if I were paid $85.

I don't know about Apeks but I've found all the equipment I've purchased very competivily priced and when I showed them an internet price on a light I was looking at they showed me exactly what they paid for that same light from the manufacturer 10% more then what the internet price was. They called their rep and worked out a deal for me. It was more then the internet price but I believe it was less then it would have been with the shipping.

With that information in mind, I've tried to figure out who this might be... There's only one person I know of who's an aquarium diver here in Beaufort, and that's Lindsey. However, I don't think she'd defend the shop. She hates them too, for the same reason. Besides, she wasn't on the trip at Forty Fathom.

Also on the trip - and perhaps is an aquarium diver now, since she relocated to Charleston - would be our friend Melissa... Who knew the whole situation with the Club at the U and voluntarily paid "her share" of the dive... Because she could see how much B.S. was flying around. She felt bad that we were so out of pocket for trying to start up the club. Ask her! She's right here on this board... She also has a deep hatred for Jason and the shop - much worse than we do... So I can't imagine that aquariumdiver could be Melissa.

The only people I can imagine that "aquariumdiver" might be is either one of the owners or Jason himself (the instructor.) All of these people would be equipped with the (half) information spouted here... And obviously, they'd try to discredit me as much as possible in order to attempt to save face.

...And exactly what aquarium do you dive for? Last I looked, the SC Aquarium wouldn't put up with Jason or that particular dive shop.

Doesn't it occur to you, aquariumdiver, that you're running off all of your customers? Do you really think that it's me that is doing that to your business?

What matters is that ****heads like you are the kind of people that will put them out of business. Then the rest of us will have to drive an hour or more to get air again!

Well, I've already solved that problem for the Club.

...And if your last-ditch effort for keeping the shop open is for $5 air fills (which you make no money on - let's face it) then you're in a sad state of affairs.

What matters is that all shops are somebodies LDS and since all shops survive on their local customers, well, your kind of attitude will soon put them all out of business.

Yeah... Customer bad. Bad customer! Bad customer!

Jeez, that makes me want to shop there.

Then where will we be as divers?

Uhhhh... Exactly where we were less than a year ago... Before the shop opened up.

Tell ya what... I'll consider buying that air fill center from y'all... I'll keep it running, if that makes the local divers happy.

Maybe, just maybe as customers if we want a shop that better prvides for our needs then maybe we have a responsibility to talk to our shop owners and educate them as to what we need or want and what we can get elsewhere, maybe we have a responsibility to help them help us? Nah, like SeaJay we shouldn't take any responsibility for anything.

Believe me, I've talked to them. Many times. I was much nicer about it to their faces... It's all about trying to get along.

In the long run, the net result has been that time and time again, I've gotten screwed... From the badmouthing to the chastizing to the flat-out slam in the wallet, I've paid the price.

...So I simply refuse to go there any more.

And the customers I know (and there's a number of them) feel the same way.

In fact, I believe that Jason himself has used the term "horse trader" to describe his boss.

That's terrible.

How many times have we, as customers, gone to that shop with a price and a certain piece of gear we're looking to purchase? How many times have we been laughed out of the store for diving with a long hose and a backplate? How many times have I heard, "We wouldn't sell enough, 'cause nobody but you is looking for that sort of gear?" Believe me, if you introduced it to your students, they'd want it.

...But like so many LDS's, they sell the stuff that's gonna break and need updating in a few months... So they can sell more gear.

Do whatever you want, aquariumdiver. I know the truth... As do many of your previous customers. As does Lindsey, as does RavenC, as does the University, as does Melissa... Should I go on? Heck, even Jason knows the truth... He just won't take responsibility for his actions and admit the truth.

I may not be a perfect diver, but I embrace the truth.

 

[Genesis]

SeaJay, you're welcome to come blow bubbles any time you'd like around here.

No dive-shop BS, hell, I'll even fill a couple of bottles for 'ya - for free - I'm a nice enough guy (besides I can't legally sell 'ya air here in Florida since I haven't filed a certificate - but if you consider what I breathe safe enough for you, you're welcome to some )

Oh yeah, there's a nice hot shower on board my boat when you're done, and a full galley, and A/C in the cabin.

Vis was 50-60' yesterday on both a wreck and a natural cliff we were on - beautiful dives.... you just have to put up with me trying to get my dinner while we're down there

I was successful in that endeavor yesterday...

 

[aquariumdiver]

SeaJay once bubbled...


Two.

And they were both immediately paid for, with a $20 charge each, and a voluntary $30 each for the accounting hassle. Not to mention a letter of apology from the bank for the screwup. I went to great lengths to ensure that they understood that it was not my mistake.

...So at this point, either you're Jason, my consistent OOA buddy, looking to pick a fight, the owner of the shop themselves (not likely, since he's got his own bounced checks to deal with) or the shop's been talking about me behind my back... Not good for business.

Keep guessing!

...And if it's the latter, not only what they've done is illegal and immoral, but bad business... Don't you think that talking badly about a customer behind their back would look bad to other customers?

Acctually its posted on their register not to take anymore checks from you

I'll tell you this... I've heard that song before. It's usually the last cry heard - "how the customers were bad customers" - just before the shop goes out of business.

they never said that

You're right... And I specifically said that I didn't see the "130 to zero" emergency ascent.

I saw it on the Suunto software after the dive's profile was downloaded. Check it yourself. It shows exactly what happened.

It didn't help that the diver that was "rescued" said that it felt like the ascent "lasted fifteen seconds." Remember that one? I think the whole place stopped for a moment to listen to what happened.

I haven't seen the profile nor do I know where to get it other then Jason. And I really don't feel like asking him for it! I do recal the conversation about the dive but I don't rememvber any specific times, however I know that in emergency situations time will play funny tricks on you!

Nice to hear from you, Jason. Looks like you're just peeved that I've bad-mouthed you here. I get it... I started it, so you're going to finish it... No?

NO! and keep guessing!

Why would I owe you an apology? I never got one for the way you treated us. Robyn got pretty sick that afternoon, and so we paid to rent the room for another day. It didn't have anything to do with you.

...Nor was the group delayed an hour. Y'all packed up and left. I bought another day, since she was sick. What's it to you?

First of all the manager burst into the resuarant where we were doing our logs to get Jason. I don't know if you ever paid for the room or not, but I know that Jason promised to pay for the room if you didn't. I also know that we waited for over an hour for Jason to return while he took care of things with the hotel manager!

It's strictly against TOS on this board to be a sockpuppet... Having two screenames is prohibited. Aren't you also Divewolf?

Keep guessing!

Look... It's easy enough to settle this... Why not post your dive profile from that dive to the board?

My profile wouldn't show anything pertinent as I wasn't on the "rescue".

Hm. So... You're implying that you're not Jason? Then it looks like the shop's been sharing my business with everyone... Did they tell you that the checks were immediately covered and that I lined their pockets with an additional $100 for the hassle? Did they tell you about the bank letter?

As I said I didn't know any of the details and I still don't other then the shop won't accept your checks!

I can tell you the story about getting stuck... I took Jason out diving, on my boat and for free. On the way back, the tide, which we both understood would be in good shape for crossing, had already gone out past what the boat needed.

I put the boat up near a relative's house and lent Jason my cell phone. He called his wife to come pick him up, and he bailed. (He had previous engagements... So be it.) *I* sat with the boat, alone, until the tide returned a couple of hours later. I then proceeded to ride back and do all of the boat cleanup and gear cleanup alone.

Well Like I said I don't know the story but it sounds like Jason to not have time to sit in the mud. You got to figure he manages the shop, runs his own business, volunteers for the fire dept. and is a member or the rescue squadron!

When he came to pick up his gear that night, I had cleaned it up for him and rinsed everything off. I did him a huge favor... And all I caught for it was a bunch of guff about how I was so clueless as to have missed the tide. I never once got a "thanks for cleaning up my gear" or "thanks for staying with the boat and getting it back in safely while I bailed."

That doesn't sound like Jason.

Many times. And be careful... I've been chastized here on this board for saying "six knot current" before. They just don't believe me.

Then they need to come see it for themselves and try to dive it if they dare...But I'm not getting in that I'll stick to the slack tides thank you!

Bottom line is that weighing yourself down with 40 pounds of lead doesn't do a damn thing for you except make you vertical, which of course is exactly how you DON'T want to be in a swift current. Being on the bottom is a matter of body control, not weight. Horizontal and correctly weighted has many more benefits.

Wrong! Since the weight is on your belt wich most of us wear arround our waist and since according to the laws of physics those weights will have a tendancy to move to the lowest point then the divers waist will be on the bottom. its awfully hard to get vertical when your waist is stuck to the bottom now isin't it?
Now once you put air in your bc then yes you will be vertical because of the difference in pull. Due to the increased drag from the current then I doubt you would want any air in your bc.

The reason that the braille divers weight themselves like that is because they have never tried anything else. There's a stigma that if there's lots of current, they need more weight. The idea is incorrect, and in fact, detrimental.

And yes, I've done many local "braille" dives. Some "with them," but most in my own boat.

Seems to me that these guys who have been diving for 20 or more years in this stuff continue to do it that way because it works. When you've got that kind of experience come back and talk to us if you've survived.

Feel free to call it as you see it. That's your opinion.

Have Jason post that dive profile and we'll compare.

Your right it is my opinion and I stick to it; your dangerous.

Oh, please... I'm not familiar with a lawsuit, but you're preaching to the chior, my friend. Most divers here know the benefits - and disadvantages - of purchasing online.

Heck, you did it too, as I recall... Quite a bit... Before you got involved with the shop. Where did Jason buy his Black Diamond? I do recall it was Ebay... His computer? Same. His fins? Mask? Hm...

In fact, I believe it was Al and Patty, the owners of the shop, who first introduced RavenC and I to Leisurepro - right in front of the Port Royal Fire House - prior to their opening the store. I specifically remember them telling us, "Why buy anywhere else? You should check them out..." Six months later, they're running the shop and of course, Leisurepro is the most evil entity they've ever known.

If you want to have an opinion, you're welcome to it... But please spout facts, not B.S.

Seems you throw plenty of bull arround yourself!

Uh-hunh. I smell an affiliation with the shop. Big time... 'Cause the junk you're spouting here is wholly incorrect.

"The word on campus" is that RavenC and I paid for every dive personally. If I recall, the Scuba funding... Which we finally refused... Was 100% given to another club. We never had it in our posession. There were no funds spent or missing... How could anything have been stolen?

Of course, we were still charged from the dive shop... Guess who ended up paying that bill? You guessed it... We did. Personally.

...And that's the bottom line.

And if your profited or gained from it personaly then you should have paid for it personally

Interesting that you'd take the opportunity to plug the shop's dive charters at this point. I wouldn't go with them if I were paid $85.

Amen! I wouldn't want to be on a charter with you!

With that information in mind, I've tried to figure out who this might be... There's only one person I know of who's an aquarium diver here in Beaufort, and that's Lindsey. However, I don't think she'd defend the shop. She hates them too, for the same reason. Besides, she wasn't on the trip at Forty Fathom.

Funny you say she hates them. Did you read the article in the paper last week?

Also on the trip - and perhaps is an aquarium diver now, since she relocated to Charleston - would be our friend Melissa... Who knew the whole situation with the Club at the U and voluntarily paid "her share" of the dive... Because she could see how much B.S. was flying around. She felt bad that we were so out of pocket for trying to start up the club. Ask her! She's right here on this board... She also has a deep hatred for Jason and the shop - much worse than we do... So I can't imagine that aquariumdiver could be Melissa.

Keep guessing!

The only people I can imagine that "aquariumdiver" might be is either one of the owners or Jason himself (the instructor.) All of these people would be equipped with the (half) information spouted here... And obviously, they'd try to discredit me as much as possible in order to attempt to save face.

...And exactly what aquarium do you dive for? Last I looked, the SC Aquarium wouldn't put up with Jason or that particular dive shop.

Actually the aquarium part of the name has to do with the tropicals I keep. And as for the shop and the SC Aquarium again I say read the paper.

Doesn't it occur to you, aquariumdiver, that you're running off all of your customers? Do you really think that it's me that is doing that to your business?

From what I've seen the shop is plenty bussy and doing quite well without you!

Well, I've already solved that problem for the Club.

I doubt you could solve anything by yourself did your girlfriend straighten it out?

...And if your last-ditch effort for keeping the shop open is for $5 air fills (which you make no money on - let's face it) then you're in a sad state of affairs.



Yeah... Customer bad. Bad customer! Bad customer!

Jeez, that makes me want to shop there.



Uhhhh... Exactly where we were less than a year ago... Before the shop opened up.

Tell ya what... I'll consider buying that air fill center from y'all... I'll keep it running, if that makes the local divers happy.



Believe me, I've talked to them. Many times. I was much nicer about it to their faces... It's all about trying to get along.

In the long run, the net result has been that time and time again, I've gotten screwed... From the badmouthing to the chastizing to the flat-out slam in the wallet, I've paid the price.

...So I simply refuse to go there any more.

And the customers I know (and there's a number of them) feel the same way.

In fact, I believe that Jason himself has used the term "horse trader" to describe his boss.

That's terrible.

How many times have we, as customers, gone to that shop with a price and a certain piece of gear we're looking to purchase? How many times have we been laughed out of the store for diving with a long hose and a backplate? How many times have I heard, "We wouldn't sell enough, 'cause nobody but you is looking for that sort of gear?" Believe me, if you introduced it to your students, they'd want it.

...But like so many LDS's, they sell the stuff that's gonna break and need updating in a few months... So they can sell more gear.

I've stated my opinions on the shop And I stick to them!

Do whatever you want, aquariumdiver. I know the truth... As do many of your previous customers. As does Lindsey, as does RavenC, as does the University, as does Melissa... Should I go on? Heck, even Jason knows the truth... He just won't take responsibility for his actions and admit the truth.

He takes more responsibility then you will ever know. And maybe things aren't perfect at the shop but at least he's trying to make it work for our divers.

I may not be a perfect diver, but I embrace the truth.

I doubt you would know the truth if it bit you in the ass!

 

[Raven C]

Edited to say: Keep in mind that my voice and tone here is calm, not heating in any way. Not angry, not with malice, nor with sarcasm. R

"aquariumdiver" Let's see. Well SeaJay has already mentioned the only aquarium divers on that trip were he and I. Then let's see, Melissa wasn't an aquarium diver the last time I talked with her. (Since you were in the paper the other day with Lindsey maybe you are working on that but you aren't listed on the rooster I was sent as of 7/25/03. )

So who would have been on that trip and be able to twist the truth? Not only that, but who would have details about the Club and prices for the Charter and personal information that is illegal by fiduciary law to disclose in a public forum such as this.?

That would be Jason Owen, the instructor, Al and Patti (the owners) and well that's it. Patti would have only the information passed down from Al and I don't think she would have been on this board discussing the person who as she put it "grabbed a hold of me and took off for the surface without stopping when there was no need to. I was fine." She was pretty shaken up by that. I remember the look on her face. She looked so scared being newly certified and having every rule she had been taught about dangerous ascents and deco stops and the likes where her life was in the balance being broken by the instructor . I'll never forget being on the surface and just listening to her go on and on about how she "couldn't get him to stop" and how "he just paniced." I just listened to it all. And then we have Al, but Al is not this type.

So we are left with Jason. The one who would really be offened here since his actions were questioned. He would be the one who would get mad. But if you recall Jason, you showed us the dive profile trying to defined yourself and your actions in the shop. Unfortunately it didn't show what you wanted it to. I saw it and it was much less than the safe ascention rate by almost two times. Jason, I haven't said anything here about that situation because it was very serious and I had to really take the whole thing in. Diving is serious and life is at stake if divers don't do it right and you know that. I understand you were over tasked that day. You had scheduled several different level training classes all that the same time while taking another group that just wanted to go diving. Unfortunately that was not a good decision and every diver was negatively impacted by that. And, it was too much for one instructor to handle. We have all taken on more than we can but with diving it is different. When you over task yourself, you effect others not just yourself. But I am not here to discuss that.

If you are mad at SeaJay by all means take it up with him. But don't pick a fight and include me "your girlfriend" in it. Especially when you say things that aren't the whole truth. Where you in the room with us no. SeaJay paid for another room and sat there with me as I lay there in that bed sick for hours. No one waited on us for any reason. The fact that you stood outside telling everyone we were in the room having sex and you lied about it costing you more money showed that lacked proper character. All you knew was that when the maid knocked on the door and opened it with the key, she saw me naked (only) because I got off the bed and came around the wall to the door.

You then came to the door right away and I was dressed and SeaJay was taking his shower. Remember? I don't really care if you tell the whole world we stayed in that room for hours and hours having really great sex, it is a far better thought than the real reason I lay in that bed for hours after everyone had gone. Listeners came to us and told us what you were saying about us to everyone.

Remember this? Even you said that the prices for the charter the shop was offering had to come down because no one was willing to pay $120 to get on that boat then pay your air and rental fees on top of that especially when Lowcountry Rafting only charges $70 per person ($280 min of four) to charter their boat and that the shop was having to cancel scheduled trips because the shop couldn't get four people. You had to count on SeaJay to fill the boat. SeaJay has plunked a lot of money in your hand personally. He's the one telling everyone they should tip you and he, when given a discount for bringing the shop so much business, throws in more money to say thanks.

Jason, it is against the rules to sign on as someone else only to disrupt the board and tear down a thread. Please don't break the rules. And remember that before you and Al were ever given the dream of the dive shop and how to get one started by SeaJay that the only way you purchased gear was online. Heck I had never heard of LeisurePro until Patti and Al told us that's where they got all their gear and you said "oh yeah why pay those high prices when you can get the exact same stuff and brand new if you don't have to."

And, as far as ripping off anyone, I don't have to go into that since SeaJay cleared that up. Not to mention, I know the truth, the whole truth about who did what with University money. You do too deep down inside. Don't you? Jason. Please stop breaking the rules of this forum.

I personally, don't want to have a problem with anyone. Jason, Patti, Al, anyone. I want to go diving.

I don't want to get into anything else here, just let me say stop this here. Slander, liable and defamation of character especially by improper disclosure is very serious. The law doesn't take kindly to these things.

I am going to ask you nicely to Please Stop with the slander, liable and defaming.

R

 

[Raven C]

I beg your pardon, I too thought aquarium diver meant something else. That sometimes happens when you aren't talking face to face.

If you aren't Jason, then will you please post a head shot without dive gear? I think that would clear some of this up and get down to addressing some of the really important issues. R

 

[Charlie99]

Raven, SeaJay, Aquarium diver ---- get a room!

Or at least take your flamewar over to rec.scuba where it will just blend in with the rest.

 

[Raven C]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
Raven, SeaJay, Aquarium diver ---- get a room!

Or at least take your flamewar over to rec.scuba where it will just blend in with the rest.

Don't worry, as far as I am concerned it has been and is being handled. RavenC

 

[SeaJay]

Okay...

I believe that this thread was supposed to be about regs. I asked about servicing them, and got some terrific advice. I took them to a local shop, had a bad experience, and was then going in the direction of checking them out myself.

...And apparently, the posting of my bad experiences with LDS's got the attention of the closest LDS to me... And despite the fact that I did not mention their name directly, they felt that they had to send a representative, half-cocked and half-informed, to their rescue.

The bottom line is that each of us have, at this point, written a couple of novels spouting off about "our beefs." The bottom line is that I ain't ever goin' in there again... Especially now. I've paid out the wazoo for anything and everything, and lined their pockets on multiple occassions.

No doubt this "aquariumdiver" has an interest in keeping their identity a secret... Else they might be accountable for what they do and say. As ticked off as I am at the shop in question, I still don't believe that they'd bash anyone in a public forum. That's really stupid... And bad business.

...See what we have to deal with from our LDS? This sort of crap is exactly what we're accustomed to. I'm no angel... Two of my checks did bounce, for example... But they were paid for immediately and I lined their pockets as an apology. The rest... Well, I don't know what to tell you. Someone's simply ticked that I "told on them," that's all.

aquariumdiver once bubbled...

Well Like I said I don't know the story but it sounds like Jason to not have time to sit in the mud. You got to figure he manages the shop, runs his own business, volunteers for the fire dept. and is a member or the rescue squadron!

Hm.

Well, I've never seen him at any of the rescue squadron events. I do know that he manages the shop, but a few months ago (before all this happened) when I was trying to get hold of him to coordinate a dive, the fire department told me that he'd been fired. And as far as "running his own business..." Well, I could rip that one apart, too, but suffice to say that as another business owner, I have respect for those who are gutsy enough to own their own... And so I'll leave that one alone and simply say, "Respect" for owning his "business." After all, it's good business for business to support each other... Even if I don't get along with the owners.

That doesn't sound like Jason.

Yeah, we didn't think so either. Hang out with him a while and you'll see the real Jason come out. Remember, there was a time when we all got along.

Hang out enough with him, and you'll find that he's full of B.S... And dangerous.

Then they need to come see it for themselves and try to dive it if they dare...But I'm not getting in that I'll stick to the slack tides thank you!

Well, I do. Wanna know why that sort of current doesn't bother me? It has to do with trim, weight, and streamlining. Do I sound like a broken record yet?

Wrong! Since the weight is on your belt wich most of us wear arround our waist and since according to the laws of physics those weights will have a tendancy to move to the lowest point then the divers waist will be on the bottom. its awfully hard to get vertical when your waist is stuck to the bottom now isin't it?
Now once you put air in your bc then yes you will be vertical because of the difference in pull. Due to the increased drag from the current then I doubt you would want any air in your bc.

Well, see it any way you want... Obviously you already do, and no amount of telling or showing or explaining is going to convince you otherwise. I've dived both ways, since I was taught THAT way, originally, from Jason. Later, I found a better way to dive... Balanced and trimmed properly. If you'd check it out and try it, you'd see that your explanation above simply doesn't work as well as one might rationalize.

Seems to me that these guys who have been diving for 20 or more years in this stuff continue to do it that way because it works. When you've got that kind of experience come back and talk to us if you've survived.

Funny... Many of the people I've spoken with and dived with who have been "doing this for 20 or more years" don't dive overweighted.

It doesn't matter to me... I don't care how you dive. To quote someone else, I don't care if you're DIR or Wanker Supreme. I just get really sick of getting made fun of by those who are too clueless to see the benefits in diving a balanced rig.

...And the bottom line is, if they're going to constantly poke and prod and laugh, then I ain't comin' back. Get it? It's only icing on the cake to me that they choose to dive radically overweighted. I find it an entertaining fact, but otherwise couldn't care less. But I do care about being made fun of while I'm in their shop because I dive a balanced rig.

Your right it is my opinion and I stick to it; your dangerous.

Whatever. I suppose that all divers who dive a backplate, long hose, and a balanced rig are also dangerous? Like I said, it's a waste of time for me to try to convince you otherwise... And frankly, I don't care what your opinion is.

...But for you to spout off falsities is "dangerous." Someone might believe you.

And if your profited or gained from it personaly then you should have paid for it personally

Wanna explain to me how I profited personally? I took two dives with the University... And RavenC and I paid for both... Completely. In some cases, we paid for other divers' costs too; in some cases that diver came forward and paid for themselves because they didn't want us to shoulder their expense. It was a touching gesture.

In both cases with the University, RavenC and I paid expenses which we would not have incurred if we'd just gone diving by ourselves.

...So, we angrily cut it off with the U... We never touched any "monies" that they ever promised us. $3700 was granted from the U, and after we closed the Club, $3700 was given to another University organization. Period.

We never even had the chance to profit from the situation... As if we would have, anyway.

RavenC and I would have been much better off just going diving on our own... But instead we thought that a University-based dive club would be good for all. The net result is that people like you spout off garbage that's wholly uninformed and so far from the truth it's laffable.

...But all parties who were involved know the truth... And they know that we personally paid every dime and that the University never released funds in the first place. Those "in the know" realize that the only issue that really came up was Jason's flat-out greed. He saw the number "$3700" and his eyes lit up and he charged all over the place... Ripping off the Univerisity... Which RavenC and I covered. Every dime.

I wouldn't want to be on a charter with you!

Fair enough. The feeling's mutual, I think... Dunno... It's hard to tell when you're hiding behind some sort of pseudonymn.

Funny you say she hates them. Did you read the article in the paper last week?

Yes. She talked about the SC Aquarium and yes, she mentioned the local dive shop. I believe it was in passing, though... She also mentioned the University Scuba Club, a defunct operation. The article was about neither... It was about her volunteer work at the SC Aquarium.

...She made us all look good. Thank you Lindsey!

From what I've seen the shop is plenty bussy and doing quite well without you!

Well, again, as a business owner, I truly hope that it does. It ain't gonna do it with me, though... And if someone asks me about my experiences with them, I'm gonna tell them the truth.

...And while your positive outlook for the dive shop's future is refreshing, I don't share it. The shop simply can't survive on $250 days in the middle of the high season. When $800 is a "big day," the bills are gonna have a tough time getting paid. And those numbers ain't gonna change when they're running off all of their customers.

...And that's the bottom line.

I doubt you could solve anything by yourself did your girlfriend straighten it out?

Oh, jeez. Is that the best insult you've got?

RavenC is an amazingly capable person... I agree. I have my own accomplishments to fall back on. In fact, I'm due for another couple here soon. Anyone that knows either of us know that we're equally driven and accomplished. I think you're just angry 'cause deep down, you know what really happened... The University, the OOA's, the losing of customers... The blatant ripping people off... The horrible attitude... And you're really angry about it. The problem is that you refuse to accept responsibility for that stuff, and instead blame in on "customer bad."

...Which is why the shop can't break $500 a day in sales.

He takes more responsibility then you will ever know. And maybe things aren't perfect at the shop but at least he's trying to make it work for our divers.

Hm. With words like that, I'm inclined to believe that this is Al, Patty (the shop owners) or Jason's wife, Tanya. Care to share with us your identity?

Do you not realize that you have very little integrity if you aren't willing to share your identity? Nobody believes you, aquariumdiver. You're filled with half-truths and out-of-context "she said, he saids." "Misinformed" is a nice adjective. "Deliberately misleading" is probably closer to the truth.

I doubt you would know the truth if it bit you in the ass!

Lol... Funny. I do believe that you'll find lots of things I've said on this board, which haven't always been to my benefit. I recall a thread about DIR-F; I recall a thread about overstaying an NDL; I even recall admitting to the check situation above. I think it's obvious that I am a truthful person. Why would I volunteer (or in this case, affirm) sensitive information like that unless I was simply an honest person? In some cases, it's been very difficult to call a spade a spade... But I always have.

...Which leads me to point out that someone who hides their identity behind a pseudonymn is likely not being honest... With themselves or anyone else. Why not share your identity?

I think that would explain a lot.