Reg repair fiasco (RANT)

[rescuediver009]

Most people do not understand the process for becoming a service tech. Manufacturer reps come to each store and do a "clinic" (usually a couple of hours) for the store staff. They teach the basics, and then the staff get a certificate becoming a "service tech". I used to service gear for 5 years - attended on of these for a major brand that I had not serviced, and did not even know how to service my own octopus by the end of it. SAD!!!

Most of these seminars are not meant to be an idiots guide to reg service (not that you are either). They are simply to educate someone on the specific parts and or configurations of that line of regs. Things like conical seats, balanced secodn stages and environmental seals. They go on the assumption that already know the how to service and are familiar with the inner workings of regulators of both the diaphragm and piston type.
No offence but octos are the simplest for of any second stage. If you came out not having the slightest idea on how to service one, there is something wrong.

 

[whitedragon13]

I see a lot of people here talking about baggies of old parts... Well, with some of the manufacturers, we must return the old parts to them to get the new ones free. So I guess if you wanted to pay for the new parts, we could give you the old ones... but what are you going to do with them anyway??

I guess the idea is if you see a bag with some old parts in it, you trust that the guy put new ones in your reg. If you don't trust the guy any more than that... why are you giving him your reg to work on?? What if those parts were from some other reg??

When I get my oil changed, I really don't want the old oil filter, brakes... heck, you guys keep the old pads, septic tank pumped... naw... fine - you keep it...

Same with reg. I really have no need for old parts and bad o-rings... I guess we could produce a bag-o-parts to show someone, then send them to the manufacturer for the replacements... but we've never really had anyone care.

Again, if you don't trust the guy working on your stuff... go somewhere else!

I wouldn't want to see my old oil filter, either, but I probably would want to see that they replaced my alternator instead of fixing something simple. Imagine taking your reg in for an annual and oh, it's freeflowing. You get it back, and the freeflow is fixed. Great! But all that was done was the lever was adjusted in the second stage and you get charged full price.

I guess for the layman, the bag of parts probably doesn't mean much, but if you "put together" a bag of parts for mine and it had say, a diaphragm in it, I'd know I'd been screwed.

 

[rescuediver009]

I think that this is getting a little too far. I mean first people are suspect to the parts being changed then people are suspect to the psrts not being theirs. I mean come on whats next? People will want to actually watch the guy do the job. That is rediculous. If anyone ever accused me of not taking out the parts or anything I would tell them where to go and that if they didn't trust me to go somewhere else. And if I was on the other side i would do the same. If I didn't trust theguy maintaining my life support, I would go elsewhere. People that are asking for hte bags are being a little silly as they don't even know what half the stuff is, looks like or should not have ben removed.

 

[ZenDiver]

I have trained people to work on regs for a few years.....In my experience, most just dont get it. They don't understand them or cant figure them out. Its one thing to take it apart and put it back together, but there are so many adjustments to make after putting back together that most people don't understand. One adjustment here affects another adj there. It takes alot of practice under a competent mentor. To take a 1 week course and then be certified to work on equipment is scary. After working on hundreds and hundreds of regs with varying problems, both easy and challenging, I can honestly say that every rebuild is different. From a simple sherwood brut to a pain in the butt Scuba Pro D400 or a specialized Poseiden they are all different. I am in agreement with some on taking a class but also setting up something similar to a Journeyman program to qualify repair techs. I caution anyone not trained in reg repair to attempt it without extensive training or under the eye of a very expereinced Tech. Just my humble opinion.

Brian

 

[scubatoys]

I wouldn't want to see my old oil filter, either, but I probably would want to see that they replaced my alternator instead of fixing something simple. Imagine taking your reg in for an annual and oh, it's freeflowing. You get it back, and the freeflow is fixed. Great! But all that was done was the lever was adjusted in the second stage and you get charged full price.

I guess I'd ask them what they did. Same with my doctor... Did you really take out that tumor... I'd like to see it. If you don't trust the doc, find a different one. If you don't trust the place working on your reg, find a different one. What other thing in the world do we make it a point for the guy doing the work to show us old parts... doctor? mechanic? plumber? No one other than a guy doing reg repair. Kinda tells us how much the world trusts dive shops... scary.

 

[JS1scuba]

We service hundreds of regulators a month. Individuals and dealers send us regulators for service. They come into us in need of service and they go out at factory spec or better. We have seen some major junk things that if it were up to me I would put back in the box and send back. My technican says "no" we can bring it back to life-so we do. We also service all of the regulators that were purchased from the now defunct Absmal Diving / Abyss Dive Systems, plus we service Aqualung, Apeks, Scuba Pro, Oceanic, Sherwood, Mares, most every italian and taiwan reg and stuff I cant even remember.

We do not return parts unless they are requested in writing and come from a dealer. Our repair policy is simple. If it's not good enough to stay in the regulator it goes in the trash. If a hose has a hole, we replace it, cut the other in half and toss it out. Burst discs, valve seats, o-rings etc .. If it's of no use it goes in the trash. The last thing we want to have happen is to send a bag of parts back to a customer and have them try to work on thier own regulator. So, we remove that temptation.

Either you are going to trust your technicans or you are not. I think both Larry and I are on the same page. You break em, we fix em.

Hey who want's some of the turkey parts I took out yesterday ?

Regards,

 

[whitedragon13]

How do you "trust" a dive shop before you take something in to get repaired? I "trusted" the one at the beginning of this thread, because they treated me well and didn't jerk me around on prices, yet their regulator repair was deplorable. When I worked in the Keys, I had a police dive team member bring a reg to me because it was breathing terribly. Said he had it serviced in Rhode Island before the team came down to train. I opened it up, and nothing had been replaced. There was corrosion and the IP was way off, but the outside of the reg sparkled like it's brand new.

You keep saying if you don't trust someone to work on your life support equipment, take it somewhere else. I say, become extremely familiar with your life support equipment and make sure your repair tech knows what he's doing. I've taken regs to three different shops on Oahu and am 0 for 3 for even mediocre service. You might think my standards/expectations are too high, but when it comes to my life, I'm pretty picky.

 

[navdivr]

if take care of your reg. you do not have to do an annual on it. I found that soaking it in bc and wet suit shampoo works great. I opened up my reg. US Divers comshelf14 after5 years and it was like brand new in side. all the rubber was in great shape. the shampoo has some silocone in it that is great for the rubber. I do all the work on my own reg. this is the best way.

So, my reg has been in for an annual with my LDS for SIX WEEKS. I was promised in two.

First, the guy isn't around to fix it. Then, he's around, but the IP gauge is broken. Then, he gets an IPG in, but claims he can't get parts (sherwood oasis2). Today, I call down and they tell me it's ready (Monday they didn't have parts). I go to pick it up, and they knock $25 off the price for all the suffering. As they're ringing it up, I notice:
1. No little baggie of replaced parts.
2. Corrosion around all parts of the reg

It hasn't been done....so, six weeks later and I almost paid $75 for a reg which hasn't been fixed. I am NOT happy.

It sucks, because I used to work in a shop and repair gear. I used to fix my own reg, just don't have the tools/parts now. Even crazier, someone who wasn't careful would've just walked out with the thing not knowing the difference!

 

[Chad Carney]

Repairs has always been the most explosive of the 3 Rs at a dive shop...the other two are Rentals and Returns.

The scariest thing about this discussion, for a non-industry professional, has to be sorting out the excellent advice from the garbage. Obviously service is necessary on all regulators even if they are used infrequently and they should be checked annually at least. No manufacturer I know of recommends going more than 2 years for a rebuild service.

On the other hand, one good thing about a forum like this one, is it helps to identify some first class repair services, including the manufacturer's service department.
Like choosing a doctor, get a referral. Even good shops have turn over problems with service help, but the good shops get good training and know how valuable a good tech is and tend to keep them around.


If you only need your first and second stages serviced, you can remove the computer console and BC QD hose prior to the service. The shop does not need them to do the regulator work. (However you may want them checked out too. Many BCs now have alternate inflation regulators that will require the BC be brought in as well.) Write down a good description of what you do turn in on the repair work order. A good shop will do that for you and check to see that everything is not broken or missing when it comes in. (I like the photo suggestion.)

Lastly, I'd recommend learning a lot about your regulator so you'll know when it's amiss. Many of the biggest problems stem from the simplest mistakes, like not tightening hoses and retaining rings correctly... things you can check yourself. Visually check the mouthpieces and hoses to be sure they are in good shape. An IP gauge that connects to your BC QD hose can be pretty inexpensive to own and will tell much about what's going on internally.

Chad Carney
Zeagle FL Sales Rep.
Former 20+ year dive shop mgr.

 

[whitedragon13]

Excellent post!