Reg repair fiasco (RANT)

[redacted]

just to add to this thread, I have recently moved away from Florida and my regular service LDS. So, my service was due in October- I have just booked a keys trip and need to get it sorted- call up the local dive shop and ask if they do annual services for regulators..."what"
annual reg maintainence
"what"
annual regulator cleaning and service- umm, this is a dive shopr right?
"oh yeah- ohh- ummm- whats wrong with it?"
well-nothing, it is just due for service
"well, yeah - I can look at it, but I don;t have any parts, but you can just bring it in"
oh- well, what if parts need replacing
"oh- umm well do you think they do?- well I don't know about that."

at this point I hung up. Anybody know any links for self-servicing regs

Not clear to me whether the LDS you call was that good or that bad. But I think there is a good possibility that you hung up on an LDS that just was not used to taking advantages of its customers! A large part of "annual service" is to maintain cash flow.

 

[munkispank]

awap... really- do yo uthink so?- maybe I should give them a try then. It is just not what I am used to. Maybe they aren't used to people getting regular services without a reg problem. I dunno.

BTW- I didn't hang up literally-just figurately, I was polite and ended my call

 

[redacted]

awap... really- do yo uthink so?- maybe I should give them a try then. It is just not what I am used to. Maybe they aren't used to people getting regular services without a reg problem. I dunno.

BTW- I didn't hang up literally-just figurately, I was polite and ended my call

I'd definately have the caution light flashing. But I deal with a shop that is different from most in some ways also. I'm one who believes an annual rebuild is excessive for the recreational diver who takes good care of the regs and normally takes a couple years or more to add 100 dives to the log book.

I'd ask him how much he would charge to check your gear out and just what he does in that checkout. I'd expect he would look at overall cleanliness and for any signs of corrosion. He should check for leaks (you should check that before going to the LDS). He should check IP to make sure it is in spec and not creeping excessively. He should check cracking pressure and, if everything else looks OK, tweek it if necessary. If light corrosion is evident, I would expect him to pull the filter and some hoses to see if the corrosion is inside where it can cause problems. If it all looks good, I would expect him to tell you to bring it back in a year or if you have problems and charge you about $20.00.

Ask him what he plans to do and if you can watch. I talking about something that should take no more than 15 to 30 minutes. Now, if he just slaps it on a tank, spits out his chew, and take a couple breaths; I'd be looking elsewhere. I find it refreshing to find an LDS that will turn down an opportunity to charge a customer $50.00 to $100.00 for something he didn't need.

Maybe I'm just too encouraged by the idea of and LDS operator whose top priority does not seem to be getting as deeply as possible into your back pocket. Or maybe it was a burglar who answered the phone!

Good Luck

 

[opiniongirl]

Ha!

This EXACT thing happened to me while i was working for a store - the tech (owners buddy) decided to "take up" the servicing...

tried to take apart a reg with a blow torch (prevented that)
no baggies (just replaced the parts he thought needed it, rather than the required ones)
caught one reg that was about to go out to a customer and all the parts flew out...

I wouldn't trust anyone who dosen't do an IMMACULATE job - if theyre willing to cut corners on replacing all standard replaceable parts...I've never seen it that they don't cut other corners as well. I find the most expensive tech in town, not the cheapest.

What to look for if you're unsure:
- is the tech area IMMACULATE? or is there remnants of today's lunch? You know what they say about a restaurant's kitchen? Same goes.

- ASK TO SEE certification of training. Although usually inadequate (most apprentice as well) no qualified technician will balk at this (but the unqualified ones sure will!) A good facility will have their technicians certs framed above the tech area.

- getting put off? Danger, Will Robinson! Sloppiness is a trait.

Signs of a "top job"
- the hoses have been buffed with silicone (esthetics)
- the chrome is polished
- the mouthpiece has been changed or you've been asked if you wanted it changed
- there is no "gunk" inside the exhaust tee
- there is no corrosion anywhere
- there ends of all zip ties are level - no jutting ends out
- they hook it up before you leave, show you the intermediate pressure, and ask you to breathe off of both 2nd's - and it's very smooth
- the guages have been polished
- there are a LOT of parts in the baggie - no baggie - BIG red flag.
- there are lots of O-rings in the baggie
- you knew what it would cost before they started work on it

If they pay attention to the little details, you know they will with the big ones! Exactly the same as having your car serviced, and it gets returned shampooed, new wiper blades, oil checked, brakes checked, a wash, and an armor-all.

 

[Nemrod]

One of the reasons I tend to dive older gear is that I would TOTALLY not trust any LDS to service my equipment. I have aquired spares for my favorite dive equipement and do my own work. I had a Mares ruined by a LDS who used a pipe wrench to open the 1st stage and then refused to buy me another. I find the dive industry extremely lacking in training from OW dive certs to these so called repair certs. I have seen their work benches, no tools but pliers, no spares, no catalogs of parts numbers or diagrams--nothing. No way. I sippose if some unlucky person drowns due to a reg failure that has a receipt for a repair then can you imagine the liability when it turns out the reg was not even opened up!!!!! N

 

[munkispank]

it really is a difficult one isn't it- the list of 'top job" is exactly what my old LDS would do- the last time I got them back they didn't look like mine- far too new!!
But on the other hand, as mentioned, I don't dive that often, or in harsh conditions (current, depth, cold etc) and I meticulously clean and dry regs before storage, so maybe a quick check is al they need this time aorund.

either way, I think I may wait until after the next trip as I hooked them up and checked them today and there is no leakage.

thanks for all the advice- happing diving

 

[opiniongirl]

On the liability thing - while working at this facility, I wondered about this question.

A lot of techs work on contract (although some are employees, and this varies greatly with the area) - they are all covered under the umbrella of the dive store liability insurance.

This places NO responsibility (apart from ethics) on the part of the service techs. Again, there are a few who are outstanding - they are easy to find by their reputation. With respect to liability, however - they don't even need liability insurance (although they still could be named in the suit, they would be protected under the dive store for any settlement).

Most people do not understand the process for becoming a service tech. Manufacturer reps come to each store and do a "clinic" (usually a couple of hours) for the store staff. They teach the basics, and then the staff get a certificate becoming a "service tech". I used to service gear for 5 years - attended on of these for a major brand that I had not serviced, and did not even know how to service my own octopus by the end of it. SAD!!!

The manufacterers do not want the responsibility and legal implications of "certifying" some one to service their gear. They will instead conduct a seminar. Some are excellent - it really depends on how lazy the rep is.

The most thorough training is a combination of taking these seminars for product knowlege, and then gaining experience by shadowing and apprenticing with a service tech who has been doing this for a long time. It sounds easy - but even now, I will always send my reg to someone else rather than do it myself, as it has been a while since I last serviced a reg. Find a tech who's done both - someone over 21.

If you leave it too long, the dissimilar metals start to bond making it almost impossible to take apart. The o-rings dissintegrate. After seeing many, many regs which had been left (even unused), it is not a wise decision to see how long you can go without servicing. Kinda like seeing how long you can go without an oil change.

Find a good tech (skip the loyalty) ask the right questions, and get it done as it should. It's life support equipment, not a set of golf clubs!

 

[Nemrod]

I really was not suggesting suing, I am not that sort of person but trust me they can sued whether the indiviudal or the shop or the owner one or the other will get sued if someone drowns and the regulator was at fault and there is a receipt showing it was repaired and then another "expert" confirms little or nothing was done to it and it failed due to O-rings that should have been replaced and were not and yet the deceased was charged for them. In fact, this could be considered negligent homicide. In any case, I would hate to be the "tech" that did the work and have to live with that guilt of hurting someone who trusted me to do a fair job for the money I took from them. As an aviation mechanic I understand the meaning of trust and when I sign my name to my work which we generally have to do you can bet it is by the book and absolutely the best I can do.
Who runs a school for this scuba tech stuff, maybe I need another hobby. N

 

[scubatoys]

I see a lot of people here talking about baggies of old parts... Well, with some of the manufacturers, we must return the old parts to them to get the new ones free. So I guess if you wanted to pay for the new parts, we could give you the old ones... but what are you going to do with them anyway??

I guess the idea is if you see a bag with some old parts in it, you trust that the guy put new ones in your reg. If you don't trust the guy any more than that... why are you giving him your reg to work on?? What if those parts were from some other reg??

When I get my oil changed, I really don't want the old oil filter, brakes... heck, you guys keep the old pads, septic tank pumped... naw... fine - you keep it...

Same with reg. I really have no need for old parts and bad o-rings... I guess we could produce a bag-o-parts to show someone, then send them to the manufacturer for the replacements... but we've never really had anyone care.

Again, if you don't trust the guy working on your stuff... go somewhere else!

 

[divemastertim]

...and to completely change the subject.... I hope you keep the sintered filter out which in some cases is part of the piston... it f***s up the whole system of the dry bleed.

Yes