Reg recovery?

[Colliam7]

Some really good discussion points coming out of this thread.

RAID teaches that in any undemanded "Reg out of mouth" scenario, step 1 is to get breathing gas. This will almost always be by taking the alternate and placing it in your mouth.

Yes. In fact, going to an alternate air source immediately is both logical, and entirely consistent with scuba diver's mantra, 'Stop. Breathe. Think. Act.' The 'Breathe' thingy comes BEFORE the 'Act' thingy. Before I Act, to recover my primary second stage, I need to Breathe (from my alternate second stage).

With the vast majority if my students headed for tropical resorts, and at least initially if not permanently relying on rental gear at those resorts, I teach with the "standard" primary/alternate configuration.

I also realized early on that I was going to need to teach a procedure that would work with what are common, if not standard, hose configurations (specifically hose lengths). Since a number of my OW students are already planning for a trip after certification, usually to warm Caribbean waters, where they will end up using rental gear (including regulators) it it sensible to do so. With a 'common' 32-36" primary second stage hose, and 40" alternate hose, the best configuration is to turn the alternate hose into the primary, and put the (formerly primary) second stage on a bungeed necklace. Because a 40" hose running around the side of the head will bow out a bit, I recommend students run it under the right arm. And, that puts the student in a position to adopt a much more sensible configuration - using commonly encountered hose lengths - with only the addition of a piece of bungee cord. (Yes, another helpful addition is a 70 degree angle adapter on the longer hose, but even without that the re-configuration works.) Spoiler Alert: very slight shift to parallel railroad track to follow. It also offers a really good chance to teach 'primary donate' as the fundamental OOA / air share technique. A number of agencies, PADI included, have moved to 'active donation' of an alternate second stage in the event of an OOA situation. I would love to see those agencies also take the next step, to recommending 'primary donate', in the future. But, that is a change that will not come overnight.

Some configurations require donating the primary. The standards allow for this. The choice of which protocol to teach falls to the instructor.

YES! I am always 'impressed' when I encounter instructors who adamantly proclaim what 'the standards' will NOT allow an instructor to do. I see this in PADI-land, which is necessarily my (only) focus, but suspect it is true in other agencies as well. Back when boulderjohn and others were writing about, and advocating, teaching students in a neutrally buoyant position, there were instructors who said (incorrectly) that 'PADI standards' did not permit teaching that way. There are no PADI standards that govern regulator hose lengths, rather force of habit, and dive shop convenience preferences. PADI 'standards' do not preclude going to an alternate air source before recovering a lost second stage. PADI 'standards' do not preclude 'primary donate' in an OOA situation. Yet, there are instructors who tell their students that 'such and such' is not permitted under 'standards', or that 'such and such' is the only way that a diver can do something. Perhaps / probably, they learned one way of doing things in their IDC and never explored or progressed beyond that.

I do not teach students that 'standards' either require or prohibit going to an alternate air source as the first step in a regulator recovery procedure. I do teach them that it is the most logical, and safest, approach to follow. And, I admit that this is a newer development on my part - I certainly wasn't taught that in my IDC years ago, nor did I teach that way at the beginning of my instructional career. But, I have begun, and will continue, to advocate with PADI that such a regulator recovery procedure (not just a skill) become part of teaching.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

I chose two options that aren't mutually exclusive: Visual AND lean/sweep.

The question of body position when teaching the skill interested me. It strikes me that divers find themselves in all kinds of positions. Vertical on ascent, descent, and when checking something out on a wall. Horizontal when the seafloor is flat. Upside down when lining up a photo is common for me.

The worst for reg recovery (barring entanglement hazards) might be swimming to the left on a wall, into a current. Looking at the wall, your right side is up so gravity works against you.

 

[Couv]

KNOWING that if they miss the first sweep then its likely going to be a bolter,

DITTO!!!

Me three. Somehow at least one student would always find a way to "loose" his/her primary where the hose would loop between the head and tank valve ending up behind the left shoulder. That's why my preference is the "blind find/grab" as the sweep won't work when that happens.

 

[northernone]

Me three. Somehow at least one student would always find a way to "loose" his/her primary where the hose would loop between the head and tank valve ending up behind the left shoulder. That's why my preference is the "blind find/grab" as the sweep won't work when that happens.

4th that! Hate that time bomb.

Amazing how a reg can climb up in next to the tank valve and barnacle fast.

A few dozen times now I come across groups doing skills kneeling on the reef I position myself nearby above to catch the runaways... Thankfully (???) they are often too overweighted to bolt effectively.

 

[kelemvor]

I guess it depends on what your config is as others have stated. Assuming the "normal" short hose octo config, we were taught grab the bottom of your tank and sweep in ow class. Therefore I selected "other".

I don't really use that configuration much anymore. Bungeed secondary pretty much eliminated losing track of a regulator for me. Later I moved to an air2 for the secondary, which also doesn't get lost.

I guess I prefer a configuration that results in fewer losses over practicing recovery after a loss.

 

[JackD342]

Since a number of my OW students are already planning for a trip after certification, usually to warm Caribbean waters, where they will end up using rental gear (including regulators) it it sensible to do so. With a 'common' 32-36" primary second stage hose, and 40" alternate hose, the best configuration is to turn the alternate hose into the primary, and put the (formerly primary) second stage on a bungeed necklace.

Interesting thought, but you may lose some breathing performance in the process. In tropical rental gear, it is not uncommon for the alternate air source to be a poorer performing model than the primary. With Aqualung for instance, the rental primary is probably a Titan/Calypso 2nd stage, while the octo is probably an ABS. Even when the set uses the same model for both 2nd stages, the octo is usually set to a higher cracking pressure than the primary to reduce/prevent free flow. I would not want to provide guidance to a new diver that results in them using a hard breathing ABS as their primary.

As they say on Shark Tank: "so for those reasons, I'm out."

 

[Colliam7]

Interesting thought, but you may lose some breathing performance in the process. In tropical rental gear, it is not uncommon for the alternate air source to be a poorer performing model than the primary. With Aqualung for instance, the rental primary is probably a Titan/Calypso 2nd stage, while the octo is probably an ABS. Even when the set uses the same model for both 2nd stages, the octo is usually set to a higher cracking pressure than the primary to reduce/prevent free flow. I would not want to provide guidance to a new diver that results in them using a hard breathing ABS as their primary.

I agree, with the performance concerns! The problem is not confined to the tropics, either. Too many US dive shops maintain a rental inventory equipped with cheap, poorly performing, needlessly detuned 'octos', as opposed to legitimate, functional alternate second stages. So, what's a reasonable solution? Well, first, the guidance I give is not limited simply to configuration. In OW, we go over equipment, and I explain I why I always dive with two identical, or equivalently performing second stages. I point out the unfortunate practices mentioned above. I tell divers to take a small Save-A-Dive Kit with them when they travel, which may be little more than a multi-tool with wrench heads - because too many dive ops don't seem to have tools on board their boats, or even know how to use them - in case they need to do a swap. Of course, I also tell them the better approach is just to have dive operation swap the primary for the secondary second stage, if the 'octo' is a POS. As an aside, I tell students that an Egress / ABS is not a legitimate alternate second stage. .

 

[TMHeimer]

Actually, if one does all the ascents and descents in a vertical position the kneeling position is good practice. It's much easier to find when horosontal, no additional training necessary.


Bob

Perhaps an unpopular view that I tend to agree with. During pool "swim arounds" I would recover the reg while swimming then ask the students to copy me. Can't recall any problems (they had been taught it kneeling).

 

[scubadada]

Hi @northernone

What will you do with this information?

 

[northernone]

Hi @northernone

What will you do with this information?

Given the results so far, keep doing what I'm doing. But was hoping to borrow some techniques.

I've been introducing lean/sweep, shoulder grab and pull along with visually hunt/pick to new divers. Got curious realizing I rarely see experienced divers dropping their reg and I don't know what most other divers are choosing as first choice.

Going to the alternate is the first step, reg recovery is secondary but I'm looking for a new top 3 technique to introduce. Something that's been field tested with people happy with the results.

I use lean sweep myself as it's the least motion and takes little dexterity in thick thermals or with limited mobility. (At least compared to reaching behind your shoulder)

Cameron