Redundant Computer

[bradshsi]

What do I win?

All of his dive computers

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Now that's good! ROFL!

Good point for me to exit for the night - thanks!

 

[BigJetDriver]

I think you guys are missing the point here. I use computers for a much more intensive reason; that of keeping my rear-end (and therefore yours) alive while I avigate from, say, Houston to Paris, to use an almost day to day example.

I was trained on flying by eyeball, and navigating by dead reckoning (as in, eff'n ys don't reckon yer course right, yer surely dead!). Can I still do it today? You betcha, GI. The more succinct question is, would I? The answer is, of course, heck no. No way!

The computer is a tool. Nothing more, and nothing less. In the business of flying, and diving, we use the best tools we can get our hands on to improve both the ease and accuracy of what we do. No human brain can sample the pressure of our exact position in the water column every ten seconds and plot that against the inert gas partial pressure versus the time at that particular depth. That, of course, is what the microprocessor on your wrist can do. Throw in constantly changing partial pressures, and the human is hopelessly out of the ball-park.

Of course, what older and wiser heads here constantly preach against is the all-too human tendency to surrender to the almighty computer, and not keep at least a generalized idea of what it "should" be telling you. With computers, there is always the trap of "GIGO" (Garbage In-Garbage Out). If you don't have the faintest clue of what the answer should look like, you will believe anything it tells you, and that might be all she wrote for you!:icosm13:

One of the leaders of this Board, the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug, and I used to go 'round and 'round about his dictat that: "Computers Rot Your Brain!" Since I am an advanced computer user in many more senses of the word than 99% of the populace, I fought tooth and nail against his idea.

It took me the longest time to come to the realization that he is absolutely right....as long as you add the following words to his...."If You Let Them!"

The computer is simply an electro-mechanical device, and Mr. Murphy is always with us. Not IF, but WHEN the darned thing fails, the real question is then: "Whatcha' gonna do, GI?" If you don't have a back-up of some kind, such as a timer and tables, and enough gears in your head to grind out an answer, you are certainly going to be deep in the Kimchi.

So get the latest Aqua-Marine Deep-Thought 6000, learn how to use it, and have fun, but have a back-up plan for the time when the only answer it can come up with is: "42"!!!:lam:

As Mr. Natural used to say: "Get the right tool for the job, Kids!!:doctor: "

In essence, to reiterate what I said regarding the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug, he is absolutely right as long as you repeat his words "Computers rot your brain..." with the added..."if you let them!"

While I tease Mon Oncle sometimes about being in the "Amish Diving Society", and doing his stuff on stone tablets, let no one forget that he is one heck of a diver, and has refined the system he uses through intensive diving experience!

There are some things, however, that are just easier to do with a computer. I dive a rebreather to depths around 350 fsw on heliox. I use a computer to drive the system, and another with a separate sensor as a back-up, and I still carry a bottom timer/depth gauge and tables. The computer does a far better job of honing my partial pressures versus my exposure than the human brain (even my favourite Uncle's) can ever do. And that's a fact, Jack!

 

[pj5]

Not that its likely to happen...but....what if both your computers fail, and you dont realize they've failed. Like most divers, Im sure you check your dive status regularly....so if you checked your puter and its blank...you probably know about where your dive profile is. But what if you dont? What if you busted your no deco limit by 9 minutes and didnt realize it? A standard safety stop and a 10 hour surface interval wouldnt be sufficient. Like I said...its not likely....but you never know. Personally, just to be conservative...I would wait at least 24 hours in the event of computer failure. But thats because I DONT HAVE A BACKUP..:11doh: , and I need one..

Since my typical dive is less than one hour spent mostly between 55-60 feet and rarely below 70 feet, I don't really have that problem (I dive EAN 32). I have yet to bust a deco limit before I hit 700 psi and head to the surface. Since my computer is air integrated, a dead computer means get my butt back to the surface. Which is why I have a spare depth meter...not as good as the one on the computer, but good enough to do a safety stop. One day, when I stopping sucking air like a rookie, I might consider carrying a spare computer. But given how conservatively I dive, and how fast I empty a tank, I'm good for now.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My back up is my brain, wheel, analog depth guage and my watch. On deep dives I have even taken to noting on my slate time at depth. I have been doing this for the last 5 or 6 days I've dove and by using the wheel I get much different results than when I was just casually noting in my head how long I was at what depth. At 46 now as of midnight (Happy Birthday to me!) the old brain does not remember details as sharp as I'd like it to. While not senile by any stretch it helps with planning the dive and following the plan to keep notes as I've started to do. Where before it was we were at 100 for 6 minutes then went to 75 for about 8 or 10 it's now was at 100 for 6, 75 for 11, then to 50 for 6 and spending 20 at 25-27 before 3 min stop at 13 (altitude dives). Makes for much more precise planning for SI and the next dive.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Happy Birthday, old guy!! Keep on truckin!

Rob

 

[DiverBuoy]

zero times anything is still zero

fwiw.... half of zero is zero too.

shuffles deck by passing one card back and forth between the ears ... and wonders where the other 51 cards went.

 

[Crawl79]

Uncle Pug I understand what you are saying, but in my case one was an upgrade and the other is still quite new and I'm not yet ready to give it up. So I carry two, for now. Maybe I'll just start leaving the spare in the bag but until then I'm happy carrying the two even if they are not using the same models.
Thanks for the reply, I totally agree with the point you made.

 

[terrasmak]

Nope , unless i was at a point in my finantial state wasnt a big deal i would have an extra computer with me. For now , computer dies i dive the tables.

 

[drbill]

I answered no because up until "now" I haven't. However, last weekend my computer failed during a deco dive at 140 ft. It was not a serious problem... I simply took a compass heading towards shore and slowly rose up the slope with stops at several depths (including a long one at 15-20 ft) based on my analog depth gauge.

However, it has me looking at a backup computer to dive with in the future. My Uwatec Aladin Pro showed I had 39% remaining battery life when it failed (due to what my LDS believes is a dead battery). I was surprised to learn that the battery indicator is based on a mathematical table rather than a direct read of the battery's voltage. I think those that designed the table must have taken New Math.