OP
Chaseh
Contributor
not missing the point. It's not that deep. Just having fun.
Redundant Computer
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H2Andy
Contributor
Chaseh:
... despite all apperances to the contrary...
alright... good to know for future reference
I think you guys are missing the point here. I use computers for a much more intensive reason; that of keeping my rear-end (and therefore yours) alive while I avigate from, say, Houston to Paris, to use an almost day to day example.
I was trained on flying by eyeball, and navigating by dead reckoning (as in, eff'n ys don't reckon yer course right, yer surely dead!). Can I still do it today? You betcha, GI. The more succinct question is, would I? The answer is, of course, heck no. No way!
The computer is a tool. Nothing more, and nothing less. In the business of flying, and diving, we use the best tools we can get our hands on to improve both the ease and accuracy of what we do. No human brain can sample the pressure of our exact position in the water column every ten seconds and plot that against the inert gas partial pressure versus the time at that particular depth. That, of course, is what the microprocessor on your wrist can do. Throw in constantly changing partial pressures, and the human is hopelessly out of the ball-park.
Of course, what older and wiser heads here constantly preach against is the all-too human tendency to surrender to the almighty computer, and not keep at least a generalized idea of what it "should" be telling you. With computers, there is always the trap of "GIGO" (Garbage In-Garbage Out). If you don't have the faintest clue of what the answer should look like, you will believe anything it tells you, and that might be all she wrote for you!:icosm13:
One of the leaders of this Board, the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug, and I used to go 'round and 'round about his dictat that: "Computers Rot Your Brain!" Since I am an advanced computer user in many more senses of the word than 99% of the populace, I fought tooth and nail against his idea.
It took me the longest time to come to the realization that he is absolutely right....as long as you add the following words to his...."If You Let Them!"
The computer is simply an electro-mechanical device, and Mr. Murphy is always with us. Not IF, but WHEN the darned thing fails, the real question is then: "Whatcha' gonna do, GI?" If you don't have a back-up of some kind, such as a timer and tables, and enough gears in your head to grind out an answer, you are certainly going to be deep in the Kimchi.
So get the latest Aqua-Marine Deep-Thought 6000, learn how to use it, and have fun, but have a back-up plan for the time when the only answer it can come up with is: "42"!!!:lam:
As Mr. Natural used to say: "Get the right tool for the job, Kids!!:doctor: "
I was trained on flying by eyeball, and navigating by dead reckoning (as in, eff'n ys don't reckon yer course right, yer surely dead!). Can I still do it today? You betcha, GI. The more succinct question is, would I? The answer is, of course, heck no. No way!
The computer is a tool. Nothing more, and nothing less. In the business of flying, and diving, we use the best tools we can get our hands on to improve both the ease and accuracy of what we do. No human brain can sample the pressure of our exact position in the water column every ten seconds and plot that against the inert gas partial pressure versus the time at that particular depth. That, of course, is what the microprocessor on your wrist can do. Throw in constantly changing partial pressures, and the human is hopelessly out of the ball-park.
Of course, what older and wiser heads here constantly preach against is the all-too human tendency to surrender to the almighty computer, and not keep at least a generalized idea of what it "should" be telling you. With computers, there is always the trap of "GIGO" (Garbage In-Garbage Out). If you don't have the faintest clue of what the answer should look like, you will believe anything it tells you, and that might be all she wrote for you!:icosm13:
One of the leaders of this Board, the Most Ancient and Honourable Uncle Pug, and I used to go 'round and 'round about his dictat that: "Computers Rot Your Brain!" Since I am an advanced computer user in many more senses of the word than 99% of the populace, I fought tooth and nail against his idea.
It took me the longest time to come to the realization that he is absolutely right....as long as you add the following words to his...."If You Let Them!"
The computer is simply an electro-mechanical device, and Mr. Murphy is always with us. Not IF, but WHEN the darned thing fails, the real question is then: "Whatcha' gonna do, GI?" If you don't have a back-up of some kind, such as a timer and tables, and enough gears in your head to grind out an answer, you are certainly going to be deep in the Kimchi.
So get the latest Aqua-Marine Deep-Thought 6000, learn how to use it, and have fun, but have a back-up plan for the time when the only answer it can come up with is: "42"!!!:lam:
As Mr. Natural used to say: "Get the right tool for the job, Kids!!:doctor: "
H2Andy
Contributor
well... my point is a simple one: you don't need a secondary computer as
backup. they're expensive and ultimately not necessary.
it's nice to know how to use the tables so that if your computer fritzes on
vacation, you can still dive
of course, these days you could probaby rent one at the dive shop wherever
you are...
backup. they're expensive and ultimately not necessary.
it's nice to know how to use the tables so that if your computer fritzes on
vacation, you can still dive
of course, these days you could probaby rent one at the dive shop wherever
you are...
H2Andy:
Either I'm agreeing with you, or you are agreeing with me, in which case we are agreeing with each other!:lol:
Your back-up could be a depth gauge, bottom timer, and tables, or it could be all of those built into a case on your wrist. Your choice, your money!
You still have to have, in either case, a brain-pan that understands the process to be able to monitor things properly!The FIRST right tool to get, Kids.....to paraphrase Mr. Natural....is a properly programmed BRAIN!!!
:doctor:
WarmWaterDiver
Contributor
Andy,
Expensive is a relative term. If you live somewhere you have local diving you find enjoyable, you're fortunate.
What's the percentage cost for say a 2 week trip from either the US central Time Zone or US Eastern Time Zone to Truk Lagoon & Palau versus the cost of a second dive computer? Particularly if the second computer can be obtained 'pre-owned'?
I wouldn't wait to see if there is a rental computer is available at the destination if I was going that route though - I'd see where I could rent one from near where I lived first. Allows more time to fiddle with it and familiarize (including those long flights).
Just a differing perspective.
I've always had the organic Mark 1 brain available and use as the primary tool. I'm not sure whose evaluation I would trust to determine if it's 'properly programmed' - too many visions of Orwellian society from my more rebellious days of youth still sticking with me. Maybe the wife??? (Does this prove already it's not properly programmed?)
Expensive is a relative term. If you live somewhere you have local diving you find enjoyable, you're fortunate.
What's the percentage cost for say a 2 week trip from either the US central Time Zone or US Eastern Time Zone to Truk Lagoon & Palau versus the cost of a second dive computer? Particularly if the second computer can be obtained 'pre-owned'?
I wouldn't wait to see if there is a rental computer is available at the destination if I was going that route though - I'd see where I could rent one from near where I lived first. Allows more time to fiddle with it and familiarize (including those long flights).
Just a differing perspective.
I've always had the organic Mark 1 brain available and use as the primary tool. I'm not sure whose evaluation I would trust to determine if it's 'properly programmed' - too many visions of Orwellian society from my more rebellious days of youth still sticking with me. Maybe the wife??? (Does this prove already it's not properly programmed?)
ScubyDoo
Contributor
pj5:
Not that its likely to happen...but....what if both your computers fail, and you dont realize they've failed. Like most divers, Im sure you check your dive status regularly....so if you checked your puter and its blank...you probably know about where your dive profile is. But what if you dont? What if you busted your no deco limit by 9 minutes and didnt realize it? A standard safety stop and a 10 hour surface interval wouldnt be sufficient. Like I said...its not likely....but you never know. Personally, just to be conservative...I would wait at least 24 hours in the event of computer failure. But thats because I DONT HAVE A BACKUP..:11doh: , and I need one..
H2Andy
Contributor
WarmWaterDiver:
this is true...
also... you're probably not going to get the most out of your dive using the tables,
due to their squre profile
hmmmm..... i was thinking expressly about my own diving ... good point
bradshsi
Guest
Uncle Pug:
UP's mathematical prowess with numbers is unsurpassed. He should run for chairmanship of the Federal Reserve
Actually come to think of it his obfuscation is quite Greenspan like....
BTW hands up anyone who doesn't know the average number of computers he dives with..
WarmWaterDiver
Contributor
Ratios mean nothing when the denominator is zero - except as a fancy Calculus exercise on limits (negative infinity is the result if I remember correctly).
What do I win?
What do I win?
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