Redesigning AOW

[MikeFerrara]

That's what I was referring to. I was told that PADI said my specialty certs CAN'T count toward my AOW (except Wreck, since PADI certified me for that one), because my others were done by TDI.

I'm going to give them a call myself today and post what they tell me tonight.

The PADI AOW course is set up so that each dive is the first dive of that corresponding specialty. The knowledge review is the first part of the written test for that specialty. So, you can get credit for an AOW dive when doing the specialty or credit the first dive of the specialty toward your AOW.

Looking at the training standards, I don't see any provisions for crediting the first dive of another agencies specialty. The PADI documentation required for verification/records is clearly spelled out. Additionally, the standards also clearly states that allowing credit for a dive is at the discretion of the instructor. The instructor can always insist that you do the dive with him/her.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That's not likely to happen. Make the course longer and folks will tell you it's not as good because you will be task loading your students, that none of the extra things you include are necessary, then they'll start comparing your class to SEAL (or other military type training) and finally, they'll start in on the character assassination.

Happens ... I've had local instuctors tell me that my AOW class is "going to kill somebody someday" ...

I like to think my students are capable of actually performing up to a challenge without endangerment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Walter]

Happens ... I've had local instuctors tell me that my AOW class is "going to kill somebody someday" ...

I like to think my students are capable of actually performing up to a challenge without endangerment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

BINGO! They don't want anyone doing things better, so they try to make you look bad. Stick to your guns.

 

[MikeFerrara]

BINGO! They don't want anyone doing things better, so they try to make you look bad. Stick to your guns.

I don't think that's it. I think it's just the way instructors are trained and what they've seen before. They really think that adding anything is dangerous.

 

[Thalassamania]

Happens ... I've had local instuctors tell me that my AOW class is "going to kill somebody someday" ...

I like to think my students are capable of actually performing up to a challenge without endangerment ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Goes with the territory, that's one of the things that I was getting at when I sais, "'It’s the Instructor not the Agency' is a saying promulgated by the inadequate to cover their shortcomings." What they're really saying is that their student's are not trained to handle what your students are because their Instructor/CD/Agency did not (does not) know any better and told them that what you're doing is deadly dangerous.

 

[raymond phule]

This is simple the result when:

1. commercial agencies control everything in an activitity.

2. the activity should be for everyone.

3. all courses and course material are made for the least skilled and slowest learners and everything above that level is considered to much task loading and is skipped in the course material and courses.

4. A course should take the same time for everyone everytime.

5. No one should fail a course.

6. you almost cant fail a course.

7. you should be able to take the next course right after the last one.

There are of course feedback between the different criteria and the most important connection is money but I think it sum up everything nicely.

Bob's course fail on 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.

 

[amascuba]

You got it!! A new buddy is visiting this area and wants to do the Hole in the Wall. I have no objection to getting AOW......I was going to do it anyway, but I wanted to chose the areas (or have the instructor assess and determine what I needed) to get it. Now because of time restrictions, I have to do a "deep" dive of 90' as one of my dives (I've done 90' dives with them on rec dives and no one blinked). I have no problem doing another deep dive, but to pay extra to do it in order to say I'm "competent" isn't right.

I was actually re-reading over the PADI standards for the AOW class last night and the deep dive has a maximum depth of 100ft. They also task load you by making you do a puzzle or a combination lock at a shallow depth and at depth so that you will see the affects of narcosis. You don't just do a deep dive and say you're done.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Goes with the territory, that's one of the things that I was getting at when I sais, "'It’s the Instructor not the Agency' is a saying promulgated by the inadequate to cover their shortcomings." What they're really saying is that their student's are not trained to handle what your students are because their Instructor/CD/Agency did not (does not) know any better and told them that what you're doing is deadly dangerous.

Yes, and if the agency is any good, there just aren't going to be many "bad" instructors. If the standards for the course are good, even the laziest no count, teach only the absolute minimum because they don't know anything else instructor, will be teaching a "good" class.

If it's possible to teach a lousy class and have it meet the letter of the standards then the agency is lacking.

The first thing I know about a course is what is in the standards...assuming that I can get my hands on them...but I will never again take any diving course without reading the standards first. The first thing I know about the instructor is that he/she consented to teach through the agency who wrote those standards.

I recently had a difficult question posed to me. It's one that people have asked me many times on the board but this was "real life". My son is a Marine currently stationed at Camp Pendleton (LA area). He has a girl friend he wants to get certified and asked me where he should take her. Ouch! I couldn't think of anybody I know personally out there off the top of me head so all I could think of was LA county or to look for a GUE instructor.

If she were going to get certified around here, I would teach her to dive and she could go to any shop to buy a card. If I could afford the insurance I'd keep up my IANTD instructor membership just so I could help out friends and loved ones who wanted to dive. As it is, I'd prefer that the question just never come up.

 

[Thalassamania]

Find her an LA County course, she's lucky enough to be in the right area. Then DIR-f, or even better LA County Advanced, or if she's into it ... both.

 

[jimdiverman]

I remember taking my OW diving class and then the AOW classes right after that one. The dive shop where I was taught is no longer in business, and the instructors that taught me, to my knowledge, are no longer teaching. With that said, I remember diving intermittently over the next several years after that, and every time I would dive on a boat or at a facility, I would remark at how good my training was. This was for many reasons, but mainly for 2 reasons 1) because good buoyancy control was almost non-existent in the divers that were passengers on those boats (many didn't even try), and 2) the dive masters had little concern for keeping divers together, organizing the dive and conducting the dive. Once I saw a boat almost leave a diver because they had miscounted. They were seconds from leaving when the diver surfaced. It is scary. I don't know which agency they were certified with; it doesn't matter. If people are going to put their lives in these people's hands, the dive industry had better learn to police itself, or the world will force the dive industry into ever increasingly restrictive rules, regulations, requirements and laws.