Recreational Limits, confusing or is it just me?

[KeithG]

PADI's limit for OW certification is 130 feet. Divers with only an open water cert are recommended to stay above 60; AOW gets you down to 100, and the Deep specialty gets you to 130. Note that those depths are recommendations.

And the above is confusing.
PADIs limit for OW certification is 130 feet. end of story. the limit is 130 feet. done! end of discussion!

but wait: let's confuse things by tossing in additional sentences with the word "recommendation" and some other different depths. does this change the limit?

i also find the phrase "additional training" to be very ambiguous and confusing. note that the phrase is not "additional certification". additional ceritfication would be very clear. do you have the card? yes / no?

what does additional training mean? i have had a large amount of additional training since my last certification. none of it resulted in the awarding of a cert. but i am much better trained. does that count? who decides?

 

[chillyinCanada]

We should have an implanted chip and any time we exceed our training or experience, we'll recieve a little zap. Ignore the zapping at your own peril . . .

 

[Ongrade]

I think 80 or 100 ft is a reasonable depth limit for most new divers (say 40 or 50 dives). I'm not so worried about air consumption or buoyancy control on a 120 ft dive, but the narcosis level and general stress (mental more than anything) makes me very hesitant to take people much past 100 feet unless they have dove the area many times. - and this is for warm clear water. Cold, dark and dirty make things much different.

A quick dive to 130 feet is no big deal for me and if I keep it no-deco, gas supply is not an issue, but the dive is not trivial. Divers DO need to respect depth and the only way to gain this respect is by a slow and measured progression, not some weekend course that takes you to 108 ft while the instructor holds your hand.

I've recently started taking my 15 yr old son on 130 ft drift dives (on nitrox). He has just a junior padi certification. It has taken a long time to get to the point where I am comfortable doing this (and allowing him to carry a speargun on the dive). He recognizes that he feels "different" at 120 ft. I don't really feel narced, but the "stress level" goes up for me at that depth, especially if I am not alone.

Certifications don't mean a whole lot to me. Practice, progressive experience, having scuba gear that provides a reasonable level of redundancy and a good amount of self knowledge are what is important... Unless you want to dive from a commercial charter.. then those cards become essential..

As a newly minted PADI OW diver(followed up with Nitrox cert a couple weeks later) I agree with this thinking. At some point when time allows I will get the AOW and deep specialty. Until then I intend to work my way up slowly to deeper depths and study all I can on my own to progress in my skills, knowledge and comfort level. I believe over time and diving with more experienced divers I can become a skilled and advanced diver without a piece of paper, but I also recognize if I want to dive from someone else's boat I'll need to satisfy their standards/requirements.

Joe

 

[Rayallyn]

Really? Most dive shops create within limits their own rules. When diving on a wreck below 60ft. some shops will ask to see your AOW cert and some won't. Some will let you dive a below 60ft. if you hire a guide (DM) Some shops or dive boats require a guide on a wreck dive regardless of your certification. Know the dive master and you my find yourself able to do 130ft. (with the dive master). I have my own tanks for wreck diving they are hp 120s and some shops and/or boats won't let me use them I have to use their 80s.
The best rule is don't go below what you don't know and make sure your gear is functional and ready for dives below 40ft. and keep an eye on gages and your buddy.

 

[redacted]

And the above is confusing.
PADIs limit for OW certification is 130 feet. end of story. the limit is 130 feet. done! end of discussion!

but wait: let's confuse things by tossing in additional sentences with the word "recommendation" and some other different depths. does this change the limit?

i also find the phrase "additional training" to be very ambiguous and confusing. note that the phrase is not "additional certification". additional ceritfication would be very clear. do you have the card? yes / no?

what does additional training mean? i have had a large amount of additional training since my last certification. none of it resulted in the awarding of a cert. but i am much better trained. does that count? who decides?

That's easy. Not really any difference when a trainer is saying training or certification. It means the same thing - you pay them more money.

Now, if you are in a hurry to get to 130 ft then paying that extra cost may well be the best and safest way. But, if you are not in a hurry then experience and baby steps will get you there also and you may learn more than the training could provide.

 

[KeithG]

That's easy. Not really any difference when a trainer is saying training or certification. It means the same thing - you pay them more money.

Now, if you are in a hurry to get to 130 ft then paying that extra cost may well be the best and safest way. But, if you are not in a hurry then experience and baby steps will get you there also and you may learn more than the training could provide.

Agreed! But it still is ambiguous and confusing when NOT in the presence of a trainer.

We are on page 4 of the thread and no one has provided much clarity yet. I claim Bob DBF is still confused and so am I. So maybe the fact is that all (most?) of the official published guidelines are confusing?

Note that this confusion has no effect on my diving. When on a boat, I dive by their rules. When shore diving I dive by my rules. My rules are well within the 130 foot Padi limit (90 feet for 90 minutes is my favourite profile).

Some examples of boat diving rules I have encountered
- on a live aboard the max depth is 110 feet, max dive time is 70 minutes: regardless of certification or training / experience
- on an afternoon day boat the max depth is 60 feet, max dive time is 60 minutes: regardless of certification or training / experience
Both of these operations also claim no deco and no solo.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just for a moment, let's take things to an extreme extension of diving within your training limitations. A diver completes his OW training at a maximum depth of 37 feet. Does that mean he needs to take another class to go all the way to 38 feet? If his C-card had 37 feet stamped on it, would he have to get a new C-card every time he adds a foot to his maximum depth?

The recommendations and warnings are designed to create in the diver's mind the understanding that it is not wise to make big leaps beyond their training. The diver should make rational steps and take appropriate additional courses as needed. If you think that is confusing, how would you do it differently without creating a bureaucratic nightmare?

Once you are diving on your own, no agency has the power to enforce any rules. A government can make rules within its jurisdiction. A dive operator can make rules for divers diving with them. Agencies cannot do anything like that. Recently PADI sent a letter to Belize asking them to do something about the unsafe practices of taking brand new divers to the Blue Hole. They were hoping that maybe the dive operators in the area would agree on policies or the government would impose a rule. That is the best they could do.

 

[Scubagolf]

OW = 130'.
Unless the dive op requires AOW to go below 60' or 80' or whatever.
Solution = Get AOW.

Just my experience.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

OW = 130'.
Unless the dive op requires AOW to go below 60' or 80' or whatever.
Solution = Get AOW.

Just my experience.

... you knew this would happen at some point ...

[video=youtube;YmqWSbJRrOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmqWSbJRrOI[/video]

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gwklein]

Although the original post referenced how different certification agencies and dive operations interpret maximum depth limitations for different certification levels, what is missing from the discussion is how the individual diver's insurance provider interprets the maximums. The following does not apply to anyone who does not carry insurance that covers their dive activities. However, if you do carry dive insurance and you dive beyond the maximum depth that you are certified for by your training agency and you get injured, you may have voided your dive insurance policy. As a result, the insurance company may not have to cover any injuries. So although there are no dive police, there are "insurance police" when it comes to paying your claim. Insurance rules vary with different policies and between countries so there is not going to be an easy answer to what will happen to an individual diver's claim.