Recommendations for Maui Molokini backwall?

[Cacia]

The crossing where the boat really comes into play is the run from Lahaina over to the dive spots on the S. side of Lanai.

I think they call that "the slot" ?

I'm going to pass on the lee of Molakai and try to hop throught there someday soon, when I get enough nerve. I decided I will take the kayak in the boat and the IPERB..how bad could it get on a light to variable day? :11doh:

 

[KrisB]

well, from the accounts of the friends that dove Molokai yesterday, it was pretty calm both directions!

Mind you, today was amazingly flat, as well... the ocean between Molokini & Maui was about as calm as any lake I've been on!

 

[Cacia]

yea, I missed my big chance

HS football season messing up my life

 

[Charlie99]

But if I offered you the choice of:
a) an operator that plans the dives to whatever limits, and as a result sends (on average) ten divers a year for chamber rides.

or

b) an operator that uses the same tools (computers / Wheel / tables) to plan dives to similar, but perhaps slightly more conservative limits, and has not sent any divers for chamber rides (in at least 10 years).

Is there a name attached to "operator a" ? Is there really a dive op in Maui that sends 10 divers a year to the chamber?

In the link I posted above, I did note that Ed Robinson's DMs do more agressive profiles than most, particularly on the 3 tank trip, but I was unware of any significant number of their divers going to the chamber. In any case, a diver can choose to stay above the DM if desired. On one dive at Molokini, I came up off of 130' and up above 100' a couple minutes earlier than the DM and was still in decompression even on a relatively liberal Oceanic computer. The DM was never in deco --- she uses one of those ancient bricks like Orca Edge or something similar.
I've never seen a DM drag anybody to the bottom and keep them there, though, and many divers go up shallow due to air consumption relatively early. Even with a DM in the water, it's still our dive and our responsibility to control our profile as we wish.

 

[Cacia]

I did note that Ed Robinson's DMs do more agressive profiles than most, particularly on the 3 tank trip

We do three deep wrecks (100+) on the AAA three tanker here for a few years now and nobody has been bent. Here, everybody either dies or is fine.

I'd love to see the chamber numbers, we don't hear of too many.

 

[bobmaggi]

Okay, I get it...KrisB won't be on the B&B boat...Can I have his share of the sandwiches?

And can I have his share of the cookies??!! Maggi

We spent 3 weeks in Maui in Feb/March and dove with B & B and EH ( Lanai) All of the trips were wonderful. . .We will definitely book with B & B and EH again. Period.

They are wonderful. Can't say enough good things about them. By the end of the 3 weeks we felt like family. And Blesi sure can find those critters everywhere!! Maggi

 

[KrisB]

Is there a name attached to "operator a" ?

By golly, gee... there is!

Is there really a dive op in Maui that sends 10 divers a year to the chamber?

That, my friend, is the reliable word at the boat ramp...

In the link I posted above, I did note that Ed Robinson's DMs do more agressive profiles than most, particularly on the 3 tank trip, but I was unware of any significant number of their divers going to the chamber.

I don't think I've named anybody directly... infer what you will, however.

In any case, a diver can choose to stay above the DM if desired.

Yes, they can. But what is the typical instruction given to a novice diver on a dive that is beyond their skill level? Does "stick next to me" (from the DM) sound familiar?

On one dive at Molokini, I came up off of 130' and up above 100' a couple minutes earlier than the DM and was still in decompression even on a relatively liberal Oceanic computer. The DM was never in deco --- she uses one of those ancient bricks like Orca Edge or something similar.

Aren't those called bend-o-matics?

But seriously... this is proof of my point on safety. There is *no* way that should have been allowed to go on.

I've never seen a DM drag anybody to the bottom and keep them there, though, and many divers go up shallow due to air consumption relatively early. Even with a DM in the water, it's still our dive and our responsibility to control our profile as we wish.

Yes, I'm not going to argue that -- I am arguing that the PERCEPTION from the divers that most need the protection of the DM is different. New divers feel they need to do exactly as their instructor / divemaster says or they *will* die. By sheer fact that we're all here on Scubaboard, it's extremely unlikely that many people fall into this category, as it's typically the under-trained and under-experienced divers that run into this...

The issue is not what Charlie, Catherine, Maggi, etc. would have... but rather the individual that comes to SB looking for someone to dive with, thinks they have lots of experience (probably a late-teen/early-twenties male) and gets in over their head.

Unfortunately, this cannot be evaluated until they're already in the water most times...

 

[blesi varney]

Yes, I believe nearly every operator here does that. But since you opened it up... when I got my instructor cert, I knew I needed to find a boat operator to work with for some of the training, so I started calling around.

The response I got from B&B was that yes, you provided a free seat for the instructor when he had a student on board, however there were some additional stipulations like bringing the students to B&B for rental gear for all my training (not something I'm going to do -- I already have a wonderful alliance elsewhere) and also referring them to you for gear purchases. This was presented as though it was expected to be an exclusive relationship -- not something I'm interested in.

When I went in to talk about this, I happened to have just finished diving with some friends at Maui Dreams and was wearing their shirt. I was advised that if I ever happened to be on the boat that I should avoid wearing Maui Dreams or Maui Dive Shop apparel if I wanted to be allowed back.

Now to add to that, I was told by your staff that there was no "space available" options for "fun" dives that I might do, and I'd be expected to pay full price. Again, I'm ok with that, except that other operators do the sensible thing in trying to build business relationships and allow instructors to occupy an empty seat if there's one when they call the night before.

So... that's my experience with unfriendliness on the boat side... let's add the shop side while we're at it.

I've been in the shop several times and when there's no other customers and no other staff, Charlie has been helpful. However, that is rare. I recall several times when Charlie has been helping other customers and Brad is there and he just stands at the back of the store glaring at me. Considering I've never met the guy personally, this is a little off-putting.



And you don't have to worry... at this point, I'm not sending business your way!



I have some major issues with Ed Robinson (both himself and his company) that I have experienced in the past few years. Additional information has come "through the grapevine" since I've been here that has me even less interested in sending people I care for even a tiny bit his way.

As for B&B -- you guys have done just about everything possible to push me away. It's not that I dislike you... it's just that I think better service and better product is available elsewhere.

Oftentimes, you get what you pay for -- and going with the cheapest is not the best solution.

You know when I read your post, I smile because I find it all hard to believe. Especially the part about Charlie.

As for Brad, that's just his charming personality. He looks that way all the time.

As for ERDA, why did it take you years of diving with them to find out you don't like them.

Now that you've got all that off your chest, do you feel better? I really hope so.

Dive safe.

 

[blesi varney]

I meant Mauians. I'll look for a boat later, if there are enough people.

But, WOW! I totally disagree with you on the divemaster-led dives. You can tell folks things until you are blue in the face (you should know) and they won't listen to you. If you are leading more than one person and you don't have a physical hold on them, then they are responsible for their profile, not the DM. Too much to ask, really. Divers are responsible for themselves. I like the guides because they know where all the good stuff is. Not because I depend on them for my safety.

Well said. I couldn't have said it better. Ask any experienced DM's/Instuctors and they'll agree with you.

 

[quietstorm]

Okay, okay....this is all good fun and good reading and to some degree good education (though I am still trying to figure out from all of your welcome comments just exactly what I have learned), I would like to summarize my understandings based upon a combination of SB comments, email responses from dive operators, and research of internet sites.

First, we all mostly agree to disagree (and no, Rodney, we cannot all just get along).

Second, at least on Maui, the consensus is to pick from either B and B (low rates, friendly service, no description of boat on web, glaring owner named Brad, hospitable co-owner named Blesi who dives well and doubles as an excellent preparer of sandwiches and cakes); Mike Severn (aluminum basic boats, leader named Pauline, experienced operator, rates start at $140); Ed Robinson (experienced too, basic boats, same rate as Mike Severn, some potential safety issues); Prodiver (very little information on the website, comparatively higher rates than the rest, nice dive boat, take only 6 divers, used to be highly rated but jury still out since change of ownership).

I learned that picking a dive boat operator is a crap shoot!

As for equipment, tanks, boats, and the like, I still do not know what really to ask for, or hope for, or to avoid. I know I do not want a crappy boat for a long or rough ride, but do not know what to ask the operator ahead of time to ensure my comfort and safety ("will the crossing be crappy?").

I like the comfort and safety of knowing an experienced DM is leading a dive, and to be given some information on deck as to what to expect down below, but do not want to be treated like a child and do not want to end my dive prematurely because another diver has gone through his or her air quickly (and on that note I find it curious that virtually no dive operator ever spends any time ensuring that divers buddy up and know what the dive plan is).

I know I prefer good snacks and fresh, hot drinks (water at least), and would like to avoid the Costco platter (which I had incidentally on one of the aforementioned dive boats and on others).

I am still uncertain as to what type of tank to hope for (though I loved the steel 120 I had on Cozumel with Aldora). I have no idea based upon my own ignorance as to what type of rental equipment to hope for (aside from my trusted mask and wrist computer) and far too often realize after the dive has begun how poorly, say, the mouthpiece is for my poor gums (and yes I know I could avoid this buy having my own equipment and no I do not want my own equipment).

Basically, I have learned to check with SB, heed your comments, check dive operator websites, email the dive operator, ask lots of questions, then make a choice and hope the dive works out well.

Thanks thus far for all of your comments. Keep them coming.