Recommendations for divemaster course in Thailand

[lord khram]

Customers don't always look at the test date etc on the tank, they take much on trust.

Lord Krahm, sorry but you always had the choice. A straight no and give me my money back is far more effective. Done it myself in the past. You took the service.

You are quite clearly not reading what I have written, or are illiterate. I will again reitterate, on numerous occasions at various shops I have done as you suggest, on one occasion even declined to dive when I was not taken where I was prommised the boat was going. Upon complaining, every time without exception I have been told 'NO REFUNDS'.
Shops consistently sell one thing and on the day just take you somewhere else without consulting the customers. As I have said before once the boat has left only after are you made aware the destination has been changed, how can I decline to go????? am I supposed to jump overboard and swim back to the pier????
If you are unable to understand this I can recommend a good english teacher.
Again as I have stated before your shop name has been noted and I will avoid at all costs if you think this is an acceptable way to treat customers. After all maybe you were also trained in Pattaya???

 

[lord khram]

Not sure if we are on the same page here. He can charge less because he picks up (cheaply) condemed tanks that have failed the hydro test and uses those. Tanks are not maintained properly so the valves are screwed, hence the requirement for a hammer and wrench to open the tank.

Now, say what you like about the two big operators in Pattaya, but I for one am confident that when I pick up a tank and strap it to my back it has been well maintained and filled properly, and that the pumps are maintained regularly, and checked and serviced properly.

Tank care, maintanance and support is all part of the package you are paying for. Sure if you don't do it you can charge less. Whether its wise for the individual diver putting that tank on his back is, of course another matter.

If shops are picking up condemned cylinders cheaply. That is entirely the responsibility of the tester. Is it not standard practice to render a cylinder unuseable and not return it to the owner if it fails a test?? That is certainly the case in the UK.

 

[lord khram]

Not sure if we are on the same page here. He can charge less because he picks up (cheaply) condemed tanks that have failed the hydro test and uses those. Tanks are not maintained properly so the valves are screwed, hence the requirement for a hammer and wrench to open the tank.

Now, say what you like about the two big operators in Pattaya, but I for one am confident that when I pick up a tank and strap it to my back it has been well maintained and filled properly, and that the pumps are maintained regularly, and checked and serviced properly.

Tank care, maintanance and support is all part of the package you are paying for. Sure if you don't do it you can charge less. Whether its wise for the individual diver putting that tank on his back is, of course another matter.

On one occasion in Pattaya at a western run shop (Dive South East Asia) I was given a cylinder to use as full that contained under 100 bar, upon complaining I was told to give it to the Thai staff who would re fill it, upon doing this I became aware that the reason for the low pressure was a leak from the valve seat, upon closer inspection due to the excessive corrosion present it was quite clear that the valve had not been removed for a considerable time, actually in excess of 5 years!! After complaining again to the instructor on board, I was told 'that is all we have got take it or leave it'. And after looking at some of the other cylinders on board they were in a similar state. So again if this is another reason cited for the high prices charged in Pattaya the shops are again clearly not providing what they are charging customers for.

 

[stevenl]

If shops are picking up condemned cylinders cheaply. That is entirely the responsibility of the tester. Is it not standard practice to render a cylinder unuseable and not return it to the owner if it fails a test?? That is certainly the case in the UK.

Is that really the case in the UK? Would be theft IMO: I offer the cylinder for testing and it fails, but it still remains my cylinder, and I am free to do with it as I please.

 

[lord khram]

Is that really the case in the UK? Would be theft IMO: I offer the cylinder for testing and it fails, but it still remains my cylinder, and I am free to do with it as I please.

Yes for safety reasons if a cylinder is in a condition that it is unable to be made fit for use untill the next test is due. The tester must either render the cylinder unuseable or not return it to the owner.
Exactly to stop the type of thing suggested has been going on at Samae san earlier in the thread, however I must say that I have never had experiences like that myself when I have dived with these Thai operators in the past I have been provided with good standard equipment.
I am sorry you are not free to do with it as you plese because your actions may injur other people as well as yourself

 

[katdiver]

Lord khram, if there's something I missed, then fair enough, sorry. This thread has ground on and on. If you want to note my company, then fine, but check out the Face Book link too and I think you'll find what my customers have to say, it's an open group for those who have first hand experience of my service.

 

[Bowmouth]

The main hazard of using "failed" or "condemned" cylinders is explosion danger during filling procedures. Accidents like this happen but are not all that common. I haven't heard of any exploding tanks in Thailand recently but do know of some incidents in other countries.
It is true that in Thailand some shops are a bit late with their internal tank inspections and/or hydrostatic testing. Still, overall I believe most dive-shops in Thailand nowadays take good care of their tanks and compressors and do not let their customers dive with "failed" or "condemned" tanks.

 

[lord khram]

The main hazard of using "failed" or "condemned" cylinders is explosion danger during filling procedures. Accidents like this happen but are not all that common. I haven't heard of any exploding tanks in Thailand recently but do know of some incidents in other countries.
It is true that in Thailand some shops are a bit late with their internal tank inspections and/or hydrostatic testing. Still, overall I believe most dive-shops in Thailand nowadays take good care of their tanks and compressors and do not let their customers dive with "failed" or "condemned" tanks.

That is absolute nonsence, what about contaminated air caused by internal corrosion?? This can easilly be checked with a inexpensive few minutes visual inspection, most cylinders fail due to corrosion not from weaknesses in the metal, or 'explosions' as you describe it. I can explain the full theory on metal fatigue if you wish, I am fully conversant with this from my job.
Also I would say in my experience the thread / valve, is a more prolific source of cylinder failure than the metal its self, obviously a failed valve can easilly be replaced.

What indeed about the valve o ring? do you think the cylinders fail more often than this?

I have been trained, and tested myself countless cylinders over the years on behalf of my friends UK IDEST centre

And yes indeed I dare say most shops are run on a responsible basis. but where I see ones that are not I will continue to inform others.

 

[lord khram]

Lord khram, if there's something I missed, then fair enough, sorry. This thread has ground on and on. If you want to note my company, then fine, but check out the Face Book link too and I think you'll find what my customers have to say, it's an open group for those who have first hand experience of my service.

Yes unfortunately you seem to have completely missed my point, and as yet no body can justify to me this no refunds policy employed by Pattaya shops when they have sold you one thing and supplied you with something else that you did not want, without first even giving you the courtesy of discussing the proposed changes with the customer.
In my mind it is totally unacceptable for any retailer to do this to customers.
I would love one of the shops to explain why they do this, they may indeed have a valid reason that I am unaware. Or have they got something to hide?

 

[Bowmouth]

That is absolute nonsence, what about contaminated air caused by internal corrosion?? This can easilly be checked with a inexpensive few minutes visual inspection, most cylinders fail due to corrosion not from weaknesses in the metal, or 'explosions' as you describe it. I can explain the full theory on metal fatigue if you wish, I am fully conversant with this from my job.
Also I would say in my experience the thread / valve, is a more prolific source of cylinder failure than the metal its self, obviously a failed valve can easilly be replaced.

What indeed about the valve o ring? do you think the cylinders fail more often than this?

I have been trained, and tested myself countless cylinders over the years on behalf of my friends UK IDEST centre

And yes indeed I dare say most shops are run on a responsible basis. but where I see ones that are not I will continue to inform others.

Lordy,
I don't think you understand what I wrote in my previous post. I'll try again:

If a tank that has been "failed" or "condemned" after a visual or hydrostatic test is being used again by a dive operator the main danger is in filling it to its working pressure. If for example the tank neck thread is worn excessively the whole valve may "explode" from the tank. Or if the tank neck has cracks or the tank itself excessive pitting the whole tank may explode.

Contaminated air comes mostly from poorly maintained compressors and not corrosion. Steel tanks are hardly used here in Thailand and may indeed corrode and in extreme cases (if not cleaned and inspected properly) cause clogging of the tank valve and the sintered filters of the first stage of a diver's regulator.

Aluminum tanks corrode too but the particles are so small that this hardly causes problems as with steel tanks. The main concern with aluminum tanks is so-called pitting and wearing of the tank neck threads.