Recommendation for recreational pony bottle size

[Kharon]

Why all this speak of "octo"? The reg that the OOA diver gets should be the one that was just in your mouth,

Not in my world. When I do dive with other people I make it quite clear which reg they are to grab, why, and then practice it before entry and again just after entry. I make it quite clear that my primary reg is mine and mine alone. I WILL NOT be tied to another diver by a too short piece of hose and be subjected to their subsequent bad decisions.

If you had an equipment issue and lost access to your air would you want the reg they have strapped to them and probably was dragged through the silt? Or would you rather see the reg they were just breathing from being shoved into your mouth?

Neither. I would calmly reach to my shoulder and pull my pony's octo reg from the ScumBall holder (where it has been kept clear and clean as a whistle) and start breathing from it. I am self sufficient, totally redundant, and I don't need, nor do I want any other divers "help". Most likely they will just get in the way. I know what needs done - they have to guess.

 

[Colliam7]

^^ How do you pack your 30/40 when you travel via airlines?

Interesting question. In my case, I don't. I have no interest in taking a bottle with me when I travel by air. I rent at my destination. If a 30/40 is not available, I will use a 63. If that isn't available, I will take a second 80 along. If I am diving in the 100-130 ft range, having a second 80 is not bad, anyway. Now, to be fair, I also travel with sidemount rigging, and can switch to that configuration as necessary. (I know, a logical question might be - which is more cumbersome, a 19 cf cylinder, or some additional gear. For me, it is a bottle. For others, preferences may vary.)

For the OP, I didn't have a sense from your post that travel is a factor. But, since you did also mention shallower dives, in the 40-80 ft range, a smaller bottle than a 30 /40 could possibly fit the bill. Going back to something pointed out in earlier posts, your selection depends on what you are planning to do with the pony, the conditions under which you will be using it, your own gas consumption profile.

---------- Post added February 16th, 2014 at 10:23 AM ----------

I make it quite clear that my primary reg is mine and mine alone. I WILL NOT be tied to another diver by a too short piece of hose and be subjected to their subsequent bad decisions.

Interesting perspective. I am curious - in those situations where you do dive with others, and have an octo, is your decision, that the primary is yours alone, based primarily / entirely on the hose length?

I am self sufficient, totally redundant, and I don't need, nor do I want any other divers "help".

Kudos to you. I wish more divers would adopt this attitude, and plan for it. It doesn't have to mean that you refuse to / don't want to dive with others. Rather, it means you are going to be a good buddy, someone that the other diver does not have to worry about.

Neither. I would calmly reach to my shoulder and pull my pony's octo reg from the ScumBall holder (where it has been kept clear and clean as a whistle) and start breathing from it.

And, that is certainly practical. The only area where my preferences diverge is with regard to maintaining an octo, even when I am diving with a pony. In the event of losing access to my primary air supply / reg for a reason other than catastrophic failure - my primary reg gets yanked / kicked out of my mouth, or I want to shoot a bag - I like having an identical alternate available on a necklace, because I can go to it quickly and easily. For me, that is quicker to access than my pony, which is pressurized but turned off. But, that is a matter of personal preference.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

....For the OP, I didn't have a sense from your post that travel is a factor. But, since you did also mention shallower dives, in the 40-80 ft range, a smaller bottle than a 30 /40 could possibly fit the bill. Going back to something pointed out in earlier posts, your selection depends on what you are planning to do with the pony, the conditions under which you will be using it, your own gas consumption profile.

Bingo.... Travel is the tall pole in the tent, depending on where you live. Packing a big bottle is pretty difficult and expensive if flying. Renting any pony at travel destinations also a long shot, so you sling something oversize. Even this tends to be discouraged on many boats unless the are technically oriented. The big pony makes sense NC were deep, dark and cold tend to be the norm, not so much in other locations or travel destinations in general.

A decent SAC and regular drilling, along with meticulous topping off allow me to use a 13 with a high degree of confidence for my profiles which max at about 100'. The compact size insures it gets carried on most dives, not just local dives where I know the site so well I can literally ascend with my eyes closed.

 

[flots am]

First they most certainly do recommend this. Page 82 of the SDI Solo Diving Manual: "It is important to note that the solo diver does not need any other type of redundant regulator like an Octopus or Air2. ... By having an Octopus or Air2, the solo diver has two problems the normally would not need to deal with if they didn't have those two pieces of equipment: An unnecessary failure point and extra drag from the equipment they don't need." I would add they also constitute an additional entanglement threat.

An Air-2 is no more an entanglement hazard than a standard inflator. I suspect you have an inflator even when diving solo.

Virtually no one sees and practices with an Air2 in OW training.

If you trained with a shop that uses them on rental equipment, it's a little difficult to get certified without seeing one or practicing with one.

Moreover, once they get the reg in their mouth I can unclip and hand off the pony thus freeing myself from a possibly panicked diver who could bolt to the surface.

So you're now diving solo with no redundant air source, and you've given a diver with a proven track record of running out of air the ability to do it twice on the same dive.

Congratulations.

If you're going to rescue someone you might as well do a good job of it. This means surfacing with the OOA diver and making sure they achieve positive buoyancy. Most fatalities occur on the surface when the diver fails to achieve or maintain positive buoyancy.

flots.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

Not in my world. When I do dive with other people I make it quite clear which reg they are to grab, why, and then practice it before entry and again just after entry. I make it quite clear that my primary reg is mine and mine alone. I WILL NOT be tied to another diver by a too short piece of hose and be subjected to their subsequent bad decisions.

Who said anything about bad decisions? I stated "lost access to gas", Yes things happen. And no I would not want to be tied to a diver with a too short piece of hose, this system pretty much requires a five to seven foot hose. The OOA diver should not have a chance to grab at anything, the donating diver should be there with the reg they know for a fact that is working. Because they need air NOW not when they can find the stowed reg somewhere on your rig.



Neither. I would calmly reach to my shoulder and pull my pony's octo reg from the ScumBall holder (where it has been kept clear and clean as a whistle) and start breathing from it. I am self sufficient, totally redundant, and I don't need, nor do I want any other divers "help". Most likely they will just get in the way. I know what needs done - they have to guess.

​I think it is great that you are self sufficient, when the dive calls for it I will also carry redundant gas. As for "Most likely they will get in the way" I'm sorry but you have been diving with the wrong buddies or have serious trust issues. You say calmly but do you know this for a fact? Is your pony already turned on or do you keep it turned off until you need it?

What I said in red

 

[halocline]

Not in my world. When I do dive with other people I make it quite clear which reg they are to grab, why, and then practice it before entry and again just after entry. I make it quite clear that my primary reg is mine and mine alone.

That's nice, but I guess you've never had the 2nd stage yanked out of your mouth by a panicked diver. I have, twice. It happens quick, and trust me, a panicked diver doesn't give a $h1t what your personal philosophy of air-sharing is.

Just another reason I like the long hose primary/necklace alternate.

 

[redacted]

Not in my world. When I do dive with other people I make it quite clear which reg they are to grab, why, and then practice it before entry and again just after entry. I make it quite clear that my primary reg is mine and mine alone. I WILL NOT be tied to another diver by a too short piece of hose and be subjected to their subsequent bad decisions.

I show my buddies my rig and explain that, in an emergency, they are welcome to any gas I have. I also tell them that I would prefer that they take my primary which is what I will pass if the need arises.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I show my buddies my rig and explain that, in an emergency, they are welcome to any gas I have. I also tell them that I would prefer that they take my primary which is what I will pass if the need arises.

Bingo! Trying to impose you will on a panicked, adrenaline pumped diver is extremely hard. Better to just be prepared to handle whatever happens.

 

[Kharon]

Interesting perspective. I am curious - in those situations where you do dive with others, and have an octo, is your decision, that the primary is yours alone, based primarily / entirely on the hose length?

Not sure what you are asking. I never have any octo other than the one on my pony. As far as hose length, you missed the point. The fact that the hose is attached to me makes any hose too short. I can unclip the pony and hand it off and be free of the encumberment. Safer for both divers.

In the event of losing access to my primary air supply / reg for a reason other than catastrophic failure - my primary reg gets yanked / kicked out of my mouth, or I want to shoot a bag - I like having an identical alternate available on a necklace, because I can go to it quickly and easily. For me, that is quicker to access than my pony, which is pressurized but turned off. But, that is a matter of personal preference.

Again, I don't see your point. My pony reg is identical to my primary, only yellow. It is on my shoulder in a holder (essentially the same as a neclace), my pony is turned on. All I have to do (or any OOA diver, for that matter) is pull it free (easy), purge (or not) and start to breathe. I don't understand why one would have their redundant air turned off adding an additional task before it can be used. As a solo diver, I think that's just plain dumb - no offense, just my $.02. I want to snatch it and suck air not play with a valve. You have to turn it on before diving to verify that everything is working. There is no reason to turn it off. And don't give me the free flow argument. If it does it's out of adjustment or you are doing something wrong and shouldn't be in the water till you remedy the problem.

AquaAndy - no way I'm diving with a 5-7 foot hose.

By Flots: So you're now diving solo with no redundant air source, and you've given a diver with a proven track record of running out of air the ability to do it twice on the same dive.

Congratulations.

If you're going to rescue someone you might as well do a good job of it. This means surfacing with the OOA diver and making sure they achieve positive buoyancy. Most fatalities occur on the surface when the diver fails to achieve or maintain positive buoyancy.

Flots - first, no longer diving, solo or otherwise - aborting the dive and surfacing - pretty sure I can trust my primary that long - and it's an emergency, not standard procedure. Second, when did I say I wasn't going to ascend with the other diver other than I don't want to be caught up in an uncontrolled, panicked ascent?

By halocline: That's nice, but I guess you've never had the 2nd stage yanked out of your mouth by a panicked diver. I have, twice. It happens quick, and trust me, a panicked diver doesn't give a $h1t what your personal philosophy of air-sharing is.

In that case, which by the way is vanishingly small for me, I'd switch to my pony and once I got them calmed down switch regs with them. If they bolted for the surface I'd cut the primary's hose and they are on their own. I owe no one my death due to their stupidity or panic.

 

[drbill]

Originally I dove with a 13 cu ft pony but now use a 19 cu ft one when I'm diving at depths I may need one.