Reccomendations on advanced training?

[divebri]

and vice-versa. If a company takes a particularly unpleasant stand, the employees are by association harmed and should consider resigning if they find the behavior offensive enough. I'm reminded of Denny's, when they refused to seat black people a few years ago, who happened to be with the Secret Service or FBI.
Denny's really took a hit, and it was the actions of a few employees, not the wholesale approval of the corporation. Lots of restaurants were picketed, and people stayed away in droves. While I'm sure many if not all of the employees weren't racists, and the company (unlike this case) took swift measures to apologize and do damage-control, all employees felt the sting. If I felt particularly strongly that Denny's as a corporation contributed, I would have stayed away too.
By the same token, if an employer makes a controversial stand, such as, say, theoretically, General Motors refusing to bow to public pressure to put seat belts in school buses (this hasbn't happened, I'm only using it as an example), and you work for them, well.....
So, the reputation of the company is created by both the actions of the company and its representatives, and they are married. You can't separate them.
And so, this is a decision employees need to make: Should I be associated with this company, and is it in my best interest to do so? I'm not challlenging anyone to resign, I'm just stating the obvious, and it's a question I ask myself with every employer, and several times it's been NO, so I resigned.
There is damage done to their credibility. They have not apologized, and wish to merely make this go away, and the people who are continuing the fight in some cases weren't even the ones who caused the mess. The best I've heard in the form of an apology is Paul saying we need a big internet hug, with nothing posted thereafter.
If you are comfortable doing business with them, including taking classes from good instructors, then you have that right. You also have the right to post about what wonderful people they are, but don't expect a free pass because certain people on this board don't agree with you, and they intend to never forget. And if you work there, and you're bothered by their stand, go find another dive shop. It ain't like there's none in the city.
'nuff said. Until we get a public apology from the head of that operation, I will continue to post my opinion and the facts of these posts if I feel it will help them make the right decision.

 

[Thalassamania]

Her shop management and business philosophy aside. Once again I have first hand knowledge I'm here, I know, I know her, she is very personable, nice person, and by all accounts a heck of a child-teen instrcutor and runs some tight programs for the same. I guess I'm able to seperate the two.

My fault, we're talking about two different people. I was mistaken, Tina may be an innocent bystander to Missy's unethical actions.

Well guilt by association is never a great way to look at anyone and Yes, you are wrong to "paint them all with the same brush".

It's always said on this board it's not the shop or the agency but the Instructor you choose. That advice should hold true to these instructors as well, shouldn't it?

I don't believe that for a minute either. I'd not accept an instructor based solely on agency membership, but I am completely comfortable rejecting an instructor on that basis.

and vice-versa. If a company takes a part And if you work there, and you're bothered by their stand, go find another dive shop. It ain't like there's none in the city.

Is there another SSI shop in town or is the staff trapped? If that's that's the case I'm much more understanding. I'd just point out the dangers of an Instructor Certification that you can't "take private."

 

[shark.byte.usa]

I don't believe that for a minute either. I'd not accept an instructor based solely on agency membership, but I am completely comfortable rejecting an instructor on that basis.

Fair enough, I look at it this way, as I did with my son's OW, I chose the instructor I trusted and most comprehensive course around. Scuba Sciences was simply providing the classrooom and pool. When and if I take some tech classes I'll have the same attitude, I'll choose the best instructor and courses for me, the shop whichever that is, will simply be facilitating my choices.

Is there another SSI shop in town or is the staff trapped? If that's that's the case I'm much more understanding. I'd just point out the dangers of an Instructor Certification that you can't "take private."

There is only 1 other one and it is on the other side of the valley.

 

[KazInAz]

Is there another SSI shop in town or is the staff trapped? If that's that's the case I'm much more understanding. "

There is one other SSI shop. Its very small from my understanding. (I have never been there) The draw with Scuba Sciences for most of the instructors/DM's is the amount of California trips they run. Anywhere from 1-3 times per month. 2-3 day liveaboards. Transportation is also provided and they dont have to use they own vehicle. Its an 7hr drive with a bus load of people. This is alot of diving opportunities for folks stuck in a desert state.

 

[Thalassamania]

There is one other SSI shop. Its very small from my understanding. (I have never been there) The draw with Scuba Sciences for most of the instructors/DM's is the amount of California trips they run. Anywhere from 1-3 times per month. 2-3 day liveaboards. Transportation is also provided and they dont have to use they own vehicle. Its an 7hr drive with a bus load of people. This is alot of diving opportunities for folks stuck in a desert state.

I did not mean to crank you up, just when Ms. Missy bare-faced lied to me and then, when the best that management could do was to go looking for a hug .... well, I saw red. Hopefully those of you involved with the shop, in one way or another, can show the powers-that-be where they went wrong and why they should remove their heads from their nether orifices.

 

[KazInAz]

I did not mean to crank you up, just when Ms. Missy bare-faced lied to me and then, when the best that management could do was to go looking for a hug .... well, I saw red. Hopefully those of you involved with the shop, in one way or another, can show the powers-that-be where they went wrong and why they should remove their heads from their nether orifices.

The rest of us dont like sock puppets either and a few of us have been attempting to quash those in private.

 

[Thalassamania]

The rest of us dont like sock puppets either and a few of us have been attempting to quash those in private.

OK, I'm a little nuts, for example I've twice terminated instructor's relationship with my program because they insisted on dating students.

 

[AZTEK DIVER]

I did not mean to crank you up, just when Ms. Missy bare-faced lied to me and then, when the best that management could do was to go looking for a hug .... well, I saw red. Hopefully those of you involved with the shop, in one way or another, can show the powers-that-be where they went wrong and why they should remove their heads from their nether orifices.

Possibly you could get ahold of your old cronie James (Jimmy) Stewart from your Scripps days and get his opinion of Scuba Sciences, he comes over to their Christmas party most years to see his old friend Roy Williams the owner of Scuba Sciences, from his personal knowledge, he raves about the shop. I find it interesting that someone from New England would read a couple of posts and become so judgemental about a business, and the people involved in the store, that he's never seen and really knows nothing about. I have to assume that it's still just too cold back there to dive, or you're spending too much time thinking about moving to Hawaii and your frustrations are showing, This overly judgemental attitude is beneath you, go diving.

A wanna be sock puppet

 

[GreenDiverDown]

A wanna be sock puppet

Hey... all we can ask from you is your best effort. Keep your chin up.

 

[Thalassamania]

John, bear with me a moment. I made, basically, three statements of fact:

• Scuba Sciences Inc. did a poor job of customer service/relations in dealing with Mr. Just’s regulator service.
• Scuba Science Inc. management (Ms Missy) was, contrary to the SB TOS using a sock puppet.
• Scuba Science Inc. personnel were clacking and not identifying themselves as having a relationship with the shop, while not against the TOS, many feel that to be disingenuous if not outright dishonest.

Are any of the three incorrect or off base?

When faced with these items

• Scuba Sciences Inc. management first lied, to wit Ms. Missy’s statement that she’d never posted under another name.
• Scuba Sciences Inc. management then decided to answer these complaints by first ignoring them and then thinking they could be papered over with an “internet hug.”

Are both these observations correct?

Well then, based on the evidence, and as a result of the actions (or lack of action) of Scuba Sciences Inc. management, I made the statement that I personally would not do business with an organization that behaves in this fashion.

I would not do business with them because I do not feel that they can be trusted. That is my judgment based on what went down. A basic axiom of management is that past performance is the best predictor of the future. In my experience corrupt practices do no suddenly sprout up overnight. Clearly Paul et. al. knew what Missy was doing, especially in the absence of any comment about the situation on their part. They may have some fine instructors and DMs, they may have trained some fine divers, but they have, IMHO, neither moral fiber nor good judgment, I wouldn’t dive with them I wouldn’t do business with them.



If there are facts that I am missing or flaws in my logic please tell me, I’m quite open, I have no reason to cleave to my current view except for the inescapable conclusion that things are not right.