Reccomendations on advanced training?

[yoginidiver]

Howdy all -
My husband and I are somewhat newly-created dive-addicts, and need some reccomendations for advanced training here in AZ. He got his cert 10+ years ago and I about 6 months ago at a local shop.

At any rate, we both want to do some advanced training - not just advanced OW but really learn our stuff and we're not in a hurry (not looking for the fastest/cheapest - looking for intensive and honest) We're shopping around - any advice on the different offerings in town? Are there significant differences between PADI courses and SSI? Is one "better?" are they both recognized internationally equally? Any reccomendations for first-rate instructors? Any advice at all about anything? We want to hear what you think!

Cheers,
The Wrights

 

[texdiveguy]

My honest advise would be to go out and DIVE,,,,use your skills as learned and PRACTICE,,,,advanced training will come.....have fun and get some experience under your dive belts!!

 

[TSandM]

Somebody else will say this if I don't . . . If you really want to polish fine skills and develop a solid understanding of the theory behind diving, take DIR Fundamentals. It's a superb course. Since you are in Arizona, you might contact Stephen Ash about equipment options. Even if you don't decide to continue along the DIR path, the skills and procedures you learn will make you better divers. There is no equivalent to the class with any other agency.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

DIRF is a great suggestion. You won't find it here in AZ, however. The closest would be San Diego, LA or the SF area. Infrequently, there are DIRFs in New Mexico.

I'm sure that there are a lot of very good instructors in our area but to be honest most of what they teach is standard agency stuff. There certainly is nothing wrong with that but if you are looking for something different it might be hard to find.

A couple of ideas...

Contact Rob "Dive-aholic" here on SB or at his website http://www.southwestscuba.com

You would have to ask Rob but I'm pretty sure you will get some special attention and training from him. I don't believe Rob is DIR but I bet what he offers is a bit different than what you will generally find in town. He is also cave trained... which is a great plus.

Or...

Look up Karen Cleveland... also here on SB. Karen is deep into DIR and though not a GUE instructor I bet what she teaches has a definite DIR slant. I'm not sure if or what Karen is teaching these days. I know that she used to teach SSI but not long ago she did her cross over to PADI at our shop. But she is very busy and I think that she spends a lot of her free time deep in the caves on the Yucatan or doin' who knows what in California.

I also teach... but rarely. I am very busy and VERY selective on who I take on. I only enjoy teaching the most serious addicts and because what I teach generally falls outside of PADI standards I prefer "mentoring" over certifying. I am probably NOT your guy. No... let me rephrase that... I am NOT your guy.


Actually I think texdiveguy gave you some good advice... just start diving... a lot. You might want to check out our shop... Scuba Specialties. We have HUGE fun on our trips. You can also get advanced PADI, TDI, and IANTD training thru us... basic stuff but taught by instructors that really want to do a good job and that also take pride in their work.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Hmm... I guess I really didn't speak to your exact concerns...

In town... the best places that I know are Scuba Specialties (shameless plug) and El Mar in Mesa.

PADI vs SSI? Both are well recognized worldwide. Both teach similar things. However, I can't recommend the SSI shop here in town.

IMHO, most of the "advanced training" via the standard agencies is pretty weak. AOW, Rescue, and PPB are probably the most important PADI courses. Many of the others are just plain silly.

 

[diversteve]

However, I can't recommend the SSI shop here in town

Which one? Both Scuba Sciencies and Aqua Blue are SSI.
(like I didn't already know..)

I second the recommendation for Scuba Specialties or El Mar on the east side. I've moved the majority of my business to Scuba Specialties because of their attitude and openness.

I'm SSI but dive with mostly PADI folks. Which I think is a common mix. Mostly because there's a lot more PADI affiliated diveshops everywhere. So more PADI divers. In Phoenix, there's two SSI shops, one NAUI (that I'm aware of) and the other dozen or so are PADI. Most of the Caribbean destinations I've been to are also PADI but that only matters if you're going to get referrals. I've never had any problems with my SSI card.

I also think that most PADI specialties are just silly also. The same could be said for most SSI specialties. My buddy recently got his "Master Diver" card from SSI just by diving 75 dives and doing a Nitrox course. Do more diving rather than collecting cert cards. You'll be better off for it - and richer.

I've never met Rob (dive-aholic) but he has a good reputation locally. And provides almost 1-1 training so you'll probably learn more from him than in a classroom setting. But he dives in lakes so there must be something not right about him - just kidding..

 

[yoginidiver]

Wow - such great info and all since I went to bed last night. I love Scuba Board.

Dive dive dive as much as we can - yes, that's part of our plan. Part of (well, most of) our concern based on the research we've done so far about advanced training is that it seems like if you can plunk down the $'s, it dosen't matter if you've got the expereince or not, here's-your-certification-if-you-don't-hurt-yourself-or-anyone-else too-bad-while-doing-your-cert-dives. Sorry - I realize that probably sounds a little cynical. I say it because we just got back from a trip where most of the potential hazard was created by other divers in the group with very little awarness about themselves let alone anyone/thing around them. I'm sure they were having a great time and all - but we stayed away. Very far away.

At any rate, I appriciate the info and reccomendations from everyone. I did my OW at S. Specialties and had a great experience so we're considering their training - but are really interested in something more individualized so SW Scuba is a great option too.

 

[Dive-aholic]

yoginidiver, a lot of great advice here, especially one part from Stephen

Actually, texdiveguy says it all - DIVE and PRACTICE. That's the key to improving your skills. Most "advanced" courses aren't going to make you an "advanced" diver. The course I offer doesn't even do that. It's impossible to do over a weekend or even a few weekends. What the course I offer does is provide with the knowledge and foundational skills to become advance. But you need to DIVE and PRACTICE often and implement the knowledge and skills to get there. That's where I'm a little different than most of the places in Arizona. We are at the lake at least once a month and anyone who wants to come out and dive with us can. Once the "advanced" course is done and you have your certification card, it's not over. Come out every month and dive. Ask questions and advice. Let us keep evaluating you. We charge for the courses, but we don't charge for people to just come out a dive. And we love to share what we know.

As for PADI v. SSI - I'm a PADI instructor. I can tell you as a diver, I've been through very poor PADI courses and I've been through great PADI courses. I'm sure you've heard this already (and if you haven't you will), it's not the course or the agency, it's the instructor. So, don't rate the agency, rate the instructor. At most shops, you can't choose the instructor. You get whoever is teaching for the weekend. You may be able to coordinate schedules with someone you like (I'm sure Scuba Specialties could work something out for you). But you need to get out there and meet the instructors.

Check out the Dive Trips page on my website. You'll find a calendar of our trips there. Come out and meet us and dive with us. See if you like our style. If you do, then sign up for a course. This month we'll be diving the old dam at Lake Pleasant on Saturday, but we'll be set up on shore after that and all day Sunday. We'll be teaching CPR and First Aid Sunday, but we have a lunchtime dive planned. Come out to the end off Desert Tortoise Rd and look for the big silver van.

...But he dives in lakes so there must be something not right about him...

Well, you know thars treasure in them thar lakes...

 

[KazInAz]

Part of (well, most of) our concern based on the research we've done so far about advanced training is that it seems like if you can plunk down the $'s, it dosen't matter if you've got the expereince or not, here's-your-certification-if-you-don't-hurt-yourself-or-anyone-else too-bad-while-doing-your-cert-dives.
At any rate, I appriciate the info and reccomendations from everyone. I did my OW at S. Specialties and had a great experience so we're considering their training - but are really interested in something more individualized so SW Scuba is a great option too.

I have had training through various agencies. I have done my basic and AOW with one agency, Nitrox with another. I have completed my full cave with 2 different agencies. I have finished my Extended Range with an even different one.
What you say about pay-the-$-and-get-a-card-mentality seems true with some agencies and and some classes. Where I found a difference was in the instructor. Some instructors arent willing to compromise their intergrity for the sake of issuing someone a card. Its these instructors you need to seek out. I also discovered that only ONE agency that I came in contact with and took training from required ABOVE the min. standards to get their card and that was GUE. They have no problem no giving you a card if your skills not up to snuff. (I still have the scars to prove it from my cave class) They teach the DIRF that someone above mentioned, they do Full cave and tech classes. I was also informed they also require you to re-certify at that level every 2 years by proving you have a certain number of dives at that level and sometimes actually doing 1-2 'checkout' dives with an instructor. As far as I know they are the only agency that does this.
They have high standards. Best place to get GUE trained are in Mexico, Florida (for DIRF,caves and tech) and Cali for DIRF & tech.

If you looking for really advanced diving skills that would be the way to go.....just make sure you have plenty of Kool-aid on hand as they tend to run out

Kaz

 

[Dive-aholic]

I haven't trained with GUE, so I can't comment on their training other than verify what you've said based on what I've heard from others. However, I can say that GUE is not commonly available in AZ. The closest I've seen it is NM and that is rare also. I concur that it's not the agency. I have certs from PADI, TDI, NACD, and NSS-CDS. A few of my PADI courses were with instructors not in this state and they were very good. I've also had some poor instructors. One thing you'll find is that instructors who are associated with a shop usually will hand out certs regardless of student performance because that's what they're expected to do - it's good for business. Independents don't have that pressure. If I don't feel a student is ready for a card, I don't give it. Now typically this is only necessary in certain courses - open water and cavern are 2 that come to mind that I won't just hand out. AOW and most specialties aren't like that because they aren't meant to provide divers with a license to do anything special. Most resorts will let OW divers dive to the same limits as AOW divers, so what difference does it make? Then again, I can think of certain situations in which I wouldn't hand out an AOW cert. It's all based on the student diver and performance. What I do is work with them more until I feel they've earned the cert.