Rebreather Discussion from Brockville Incident

[Dsix36]

My pPO2 monitor never required a software update. I cannot interact with it other than turning it ON by removing a rubber band around the case which also removes a magnet which triggers an ON/OFF switch internally to the case. It is waterproof to 120 meters without oil filling and it is oil filled (so any leak will be easily detectable). No matter how creative I can be, there is no room for me to mess it up (I got 2 for good measure and rotate them between dive series).

I also have another "life-support" system which never required a software update (just a change of battery every few years). It is Always ON. It runs of its own volition self-tests. It alerts me if the self-tests fail.

70 or 50 firmware "updates" is a bad sign in "life-support" equipment... and 10 within a short-space of product release is also a bad sign.

Is your work experience with "life-support" equipment (or non life-support products)?

We had read your opinions many times and they are always the same thing. I do not have an axe to grind with you, but all your posting of the same thing over and over is starting to make you look dumber and dumber all the time. Take the subtle hint and STFU for awhile. Am I the only one that is tired of you wasting all this bandwidth?

Mods feel free to punish me, at least I can get away from this dribble.

 

[gianaameri]

Thanks Gianaameri. Your points on WOB, Elastance, and Hydrostatic Imbalance, together with software are noted and already on my list of questions along with quite a few others. It is personal informed choice, but if you truly believe it is Russian Roulette, can ANY cave dive be worth it? Why not restrict yourself to those cave dives you can do on OC? BTW what is your point about max depth of 30m rather than 40?

If you have a rebreather which is outside the USN WOB limit at 40 meters and you dive it at 30 meters, you are effectively de-rating it. At 30 meters the WOB will be lower, all other things being equal, than at 40 meters, so you are more likely to stay within the USN WOB limit. My rebreather is just above the USN WOB limit at 40 meters, so I voluntarily de-rate it and in Air do not dive it deeper than 30 meters (plus cave diving on Air beyond 24 - 26 meters I do not think is a good idea from a narcosis stand-point anyway).

To answer the other question, a rebreather is Russian Roulette at any depth in any environment. It is not worth it other than where as a tool is indispensable for the job at hand.

At the moment I enjoy the experience of cave diving... so cave diving it will be, no limits for me (other then my personal limits). I would not enjoy it if I were to set a limit besides my personal limits.

You just have to be prepared to die in no limits diving (or you would not be able to do it). I accept my life could end on any dive.

---------- Post added July 20th, 2013 at 04:40 PM ----------

We had read your opinions many times and they are always the same thing. I do not have an axe to grind with you, but all your posting of the same thing over and over is starting to make you look dumber and dumber all the time. Take the subtle hint and STFU for awhile. Am I the only one that is tired of you wasting all this bandwidth?

Mods feel free to punish me, at least I can get away from this dribble.

Why don't you go diving instead of reading my dribble?

 

[Superlyte27]

We had read your opinions many times and they are always the same thing. I do not have an axe to grind with you, but all your posting of the same thing over and over is starting to make you look dumber and dumber all the time. Take the subtle hint and STFU for awhile. Am I the only one that is tired of you wasting all this bandwidth?

Mods feel free to punish me, at least I can get away from this dribble.

Put him on ignore like I did.

 

[Dsix36]

Put him on ignore like I did.

Good idea, it is just that I always feel the need to fix stupid and in this case, he is to far gone.

 

[Larry7895]

Kate:

When I had 10 minutes left on my 10 minute stop, James had I think 47 TTS showing on his Petrels. I had an awesome dive. Thanks for lending me your boyfriend. He shows me all the cool places.

Larry:
Take a real close look at the rEvo. Because the scrubbers are SO easy to pack, and there's two of them, I truly believe it would take a very large moron mistake twice in a row in exactly the same fashion to result in a serious CO2 event. The scrubbers are redundant, and super simple to pack. Honestly, WOB is a non-issue. I was told during class that if breathing my rEvo was any different than how I was breathing right now, there was an issue. Well, truthfully, the unit breathed like crap. So there was an issue. Placement, crotchstraps, waist straps, etc played into it. We fixed it and now the rebreather breathes just like you are breathing right now. Truthfully, that doesn't happen over night. But it does happen over month

Today, I can't imagine giving up diving with my rebreather. I miss it when I'm on OC.

Thanks Superlyte27, it will certainly be one of the ones I try. Were there any others that you looked at before choosing the rEvo and was it anything beyond the twin scrubbers that made you go with the rEvo? Many thanks.

 

[tridacna]

We had read your opinions many times and they are always the same thing. I do not have an axe to grind with you, but all your posting of the same thing over and over is starting to make you look dumber and dumber all the time. Take the subtle hint and STFU for awhile. Am I the only one that is tired of you wasting all this bandwidth?

Mods feel free to punish me, at least I can get away from this dribble.

Frankly I appreciate his "dribble". About time that someone had the balls to describe the inadequacies of these underwater anesthesia devices. No-one has offered a sane counter argument yet. All we hear are "I went diving this morning and I survived so na na na". Hardly compelling evidence.

Not sure why you keep reading the thread if it frustrates you so much? Just pretend to put him on 'ignore" like the others. And ignore the thread.

 

[Superlyte27]

Thanks Superlyte27, it will certainly be one of the ones I try. Were there any others that you looked at before choosing the rEvo and was it anything beyond the twin scrubbers that made you go with the rEvo? Many thanks.

Larry,
I've given a serious look at the Titan, Meg and Hollis. In fact, I'm considering buying my wife something early next year, and I don't have a clue what it will be. I'd like it to be something different just to broaden my experience, but right now, I'm leaning towards another rEvo.

Ultimately, what is so appealing to me about the rEvo is that it is so simple. If you understand how an O2 sensor works, and how a 2nd stage regulator works, you've gotten the rEvo figured out. Factor in that there's only 4 orings, setup and breakdown is super simple, and a profile small enough for even tighter caves and it was a no brainer.

I had heard all the hype about how dangerous rebreathers are. Honestly, 2 years ago I told everyone that I'd NEVER dive one of those gas bags of death. Then sitting out at a picnic table, a friend of mine opened his rEvo up. When he showed me everything that was involved (which wasn't much), I felt a bit foolish for the bandwagon I had been riding on.

I'm not going to sit here and say, "they're dangerous, they'll kill you, no one should be diving them except, blah blah blah," and then go dive mine happily every day. What I will tell you is, they're dangerous, and if you're a moron, they might kill you.

The funny part about the WOB is, some machine says that it's harder to breathe at 30m than 40m or some such bs, the fact of the matter is, it just doesn't matter. It's interesting that today I made 50 times the pay I made yesterday. Can you imagine that? A 50x increase in my pay? That's friggin awesome. Oh, I forgot to tell you. Yesterday I only made 10cents. These WOB numbers that you are reading are a lot like that. Sure, a machine can measure that the WOB is higher... but really, how much higher? Are we talking pennies, dollars, cents, sense? I dive my rebreather to 300' is there a difference between 10' and 300'? Barely, if any that I could detect. Would a machine agree with me? Nope. Are you a machine? Are you Sheldon Cooper?

---------- Post added July 20th, 2013 at 11:34 PM ----------

Frankly I appreciate his "dribble". About time that someone had the balls to describe the inadequacies of these underwater anesthesia devices.

Not sure why you keep reading the thread if it frustrates you so much? Just pretend to put him on 'ignore" like the others. And ignore the thread.

We got no problem with someone having the balls to voice the inadequacies, what we wish they had was the common sense and intellect to go with it. Common sense might make him choose his audience better. Imagine going to a Cake Forum and then telling all the members that eating cake will kill you. That's exactly what he did post after post, thread after thread on two rebreather forums, ultimately getting banned. At least here the mods are a bit more lenient and don't really get involved, but when you're inciting animosity and argument at every post, it's time to move on, which is what has brought him here.

As far as "ignore" goes...., if SB doesn't have a feature, I can email you an editor that will run in the background that will allow you to ignore anyone you want. You can thank Wormil for that one.

 

[gianaameri]

I dive my rebreather to 300' is there a difference between 10' and 300'? Barely, if any that I could detect.

There is a massive difference in perceived WOB between diving a rebreather on Air at 40 meters and diving a rebreather on Heliox at 100 meters. You cannot measure it, but the perception of the lower WOB at 100 meters is very clear and distinct.

Also the perception of clarity of mind at 100 meters on Heliox vs. 40 meter on Air is quite strong. You are pretty well narked at 40 meters on Air.

Imagine going to a Cake Forum and then telling all the members that eating cake will kill you.

Or going to a Scientology party and talk about actual science and substantiate the rationale with numbers

 

[Larry7895]

Larry,
I've given a serious look at the Titan, Meg and Hollis. In fact, I'm considering buying my wife something early next year, and I don't have a clue what it will be. I'd like it to be something different just to broaden my experience, but right now, I'm leaning towards another rEvo.

Ultimately, what is so appealing to me about the rEvo is that it is so simple. If you understand how an O2 sensor works, and how a 2nd stage regulator works, you've gotten the rEvo figured out. Factor in that there's only 4 orings, setup and breakdown is super simple, and a profile small enough for even tighter caves and it was a no brainer.

I had heard all the hype about how dangerous rebreathers are. Honestly, 2 years ago I told everyone that I'd NEVER dive one of those gas bags of death. Then sitting out at a picnic table, a friend of mine opened his rEvo up. When he showed me everything that was involved (which wasn't much), I felt a bit foolish for the bandwagon I had been riding on.

I'm not going to sit here and say, "they're dangerous, they'll kill you, no one should be diving them except, blah blah blah," and then go dive mine happily every day. What I will tell you is, they're dangerous, and if you're a moron, they might kill you.

The funny part about the WOB is, some machine says that it's harder to breathe at 30m than 40m or some such bs, the fact of the matter is, it just doesn't matter. It's interesting that today I made 50 times the pay I made yesterday. Can you imagine that? A 50x increase in my pay? That's friggin awesome. Oh, I forgot to tell you. Yesterday I only made 10cents. These WOB numbers that you are reading are a lot like that. Sure, a machine can measure that the WOB is higher... but really, how much higher? Are we talking pennies, dollars, cents, sense? I dive my rebreather to 300' is there a difference between 10' and 300'? Barely, if any that I could detect. Would a machine agree with me? Nope. Are you a machine? Are you Sheldon Cooper?

---------- Post added July 20th, 2013 at 11:34 PM ----------



We got no problem with someone having the balls to voice the inadequacies, what we wish they had was the common sense and intellect to go with it. Common sense might make him choose his audience better. Imagine going to a Cake Forum and then telling all the members that eating cake will kill you. That's exactly what he did post after post, thread after thread on two rebreather forums, ultimately getting banned. At least here the mods are a bit more lenient and don't really get involved, but when you're inciting animosity and argument at every post, it's time to move on, which is what has brought him here.

As far as "ignore" goes...., if SB doesn't have a feature, I can email you an editor that will run in the background that will allow you to ignore anyone you want. You can thank Wormil for that one.

Thank you Superlyte27, much appreciated. It'll be only my list. Regards Larry


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[HIGHwing]

WOB @ 40M on air? Who cares?? It costs me about $3.00 to solve that problem.


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