Reasons why you should not take a course through a dive shop

[Lemna]

Diver0001,

when you write that students should choose between an independent and a shop instructor, you leave out option #3: an instructor affiliated with a dive club. As you know, it's an option that's available in most parts of Europe (through CMAS, BSAC,...) and probably elsewhere as well. Most of these instructors teach for free or a token compensation (and a post-dive beer ) ; students will immediately get dive buddies through the club, will be encouraged to dive locally, participate in pool training, etc. etc.

Is there a good reason not to get club-based instruction?

 

[Diver0001]

Here is the problem with your position. It assumes all shops are the same, and ignores the fact that some (most likely the most successful) are ran by good people who understand customers are why they are there, many divers themselves

I have no doubt that many shops are run by good people.

However, how many of those people understand the business model they're supporting.

R..

 

[Akimbo]

Maybe I missed it, but another advantage of an independent instructor is they have to be better at their business than most other instructors to survive. It is hard to know if shop instructors are any good or just low-bidder so to speak.

 

[divingpyrate]

I have no doubt that many shops are run by good people.

However, how many of those people understand the business model they're supporting.

R..

Cars, Cameras, Scuba, My life I never do business with a company. Any company without researching them first and talking with the owner if possible. In this information age it is not that hard to know who you are dealing with

 

[wedivebc]

While I agree with much of Rob's post there are some factors to be considered. Just like not all instructors are created equal, not all dive shops are created equal. In both cases I think one of the easier ways for a new diver trying to determine the quality of instruction is to look at the longevity of the shop or more importantly the instructor they are engaging for training.
An instructor who has been in the game for a long time is more likely to turn out a good product than those who are new. Not because there aren't good, newbie instructors out there but because bad instructors tend not to hang around for long.
Several of what I would consider to be good instructors have posted in this thread. Why do I consider them good instructors? I have not taken any training from them but over the years I have seen them patiently explain, coach or mentor divers with issues or question on internet forums.
So just as a shop that has been around forever is likely to offer decent instruction, an instructor with mileage is also likely to be good at his game.

 

[Diver0001]

Diver0001,

when you write that students should choose between an independent and a shop instructor, you leave out option #3: an instructor affiliated with a dive club. As you know, it's an option that's available in most parts of Europe (through CMAS, BSAC,...) and probably elsewhere as well. Most of these instructors teach for free or a token compensation (and a post-dive beer ) ; students will immediately get dive buddies through the club, will be encouraged to dive locally, participate in pool training, etc. etc.

Is there a good reason not to get club-based instruction?

Lemma

I can't address club based instruction in this thread because I don't have much experience with it. I must say that I am seriously considering crossing over from PADI to NOB. My impression, however, is that CMAS club training does address some of what I'm discussing.

R..

 

[divingpyrate]

While I agree with much of Rob's post there are some factors to be considered. Just like not all instructors are created equal, not all dive shops are created equal. In both cases I think one of the easier ways for a new diver trying to determine the quality of instruction is to look at the longevity of the shop or more importantly the instructor they are engaging for training.
An instructor who has been in the game for a long time is more likely to turn out a good product than those who are new. Not because there aren't good, newbie instructors out there but because bad instructors tend not to hang around for long.
Several of what I would consider to be good instructors have posted in this thread. Why do I consider them good instructors? I have not taken any training from them but over the years I have seen them patiently explain, coach or mentor divers with issues or question on internet forums.
So just as a shop that has been around forever is likely to offer decent instruction, an instructor with mileage is also likely to be good at his game.

That was my point, diving is far to diverse to try and put into absolute statements.
I think there are definite advantages to a personal instructor. If I had to choose again I would go that way. But I do not think it can be said that going through a local shop is a bad choice either. Depends on the shop.

 

[Diver0001]

That was my point, diving is far to diverse to try and put into absolute statements.

I agree. absolute statements are generally in need of nuances. Maybe that is true of the OP too. The intention here is to bring up a long overdue discussion, which is the disparity between quality and time/funds with respect to training.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

This is not a simple question, and there will be no simple answers. I have worked for 2 shops, and I have strongly considered going independent. Here are some random thoughts.

Both the shop I used to work for and my present shop want returning customers, and they believe the customers most likely to return are those who feel safe and confident when they dive. Skimping on training works against that goal. The diver who has a bad experience is more likely to stop diving altogether than to return for more training.

There is a lot of overhead in scuba instruction. You need a lot of gear. It has to be maintained. You need to rent pool time. A dive shop doing a lot of instruction can do a much better job distributing those costs over a large number of customers. The ability to do that as an independent varies greatly by location. In Colorado, I decided that was too much for me. If I were living in a place like Florida, it would be easier. The pressure of this overhead would weigh heavily upon an independent in my area. My shop just replaced 100% of its instructional gear. It negotiated a good price from a vendor, but it still cost a bundle. An independent would be tempted to stay with the worn out stuff. Pool rental fees are very high where I live, so an independent would feel a lot of pressure to limit pool time.

As a shop instructor, I have benefited from my interactions with other instructors, and I believe they have benefited from contact with me.

I like very much that if I get ill or have a last minute conflict, one call later my class is covered.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is not a simple question, and there will be no simple answers. I have worked for 2 shops, and I have strongly considered going independent. Here are some random thoughts.

Both the shop I used to work for and my present shop want returning customers, and they believe the customers most likely to return are those who feel safe and confident when they dive. Skimping on training works against that goal. The diver who has a bad experience is more likely to stop diving altogether than to return for more training.

There is a lot of overhead in scuba instruction. You need a lot of gear. It has to be maintained. You need to rent pool time. A dive shop doing a lot of instruction can do a much better job distributing those costs over a large number of customers. The ability to do that as an independent varies greatly by location. In Colorado, I decided that was too much for me. If I were living in a place like Florida, it would be easier. The pressure of this overhead would weigh heavily upon an independent in my area. My shop just replaced 100% of its instructional gear. It negotiated a good price from a vendor, but it still cost a bundle. An independent would be tempted to stay with the worn out stuff. Pool rental fees are very high where I live, so an independent would feel a lot of pressure to limit pool time.

As a shop instructor, I have benefited from my interactions with other instructors, and I believe they have benefited from contact with me.

I like very much that if I get ill or have a last minute conflict, one call later my class is covered.

There are solutions for the independent instructor. As an example, I share a group insurance policy with other instructors through an independent business that focuses on dive instruction. When I need pool time, I have partnerships with a handful of shops. I call around to find out which is renting pool time, when, and whether they could accommodate my needs. If so, I share costs for the pool rental with them. It's a win-win ... and the shops I maintain good relationships with benefit not only by having me occasionally share their pool expenses (they often don't need the whole pool anyway), but those are the shops who are more likely to see my students when they need to rent or purchase equipment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)