Reasons why you should not take a course through a dive shop

[MXGratefulDiver]

Interesting that you don't like "being efficient", Bob. One of the things we really like about the way we've been running the group classes is the efficiency. But what we view as efficiency is making the amount of time the student spends demonstrating skills to the instructor as short as it can be and get it done -- then the student has MORE time to swim in the deep end, and demonstrate those skills repeatedly to the CAs (usually in midwater) until they are really confirmed with them.

I don't like what some instructors refer to as "efficiency" ... which often amounts to having a student parrot a skill once, while kneeling, then moving on to the next skill. That's not my idea of mastery.

When I can see a student performing a skill like it ain't no big whoop (which it shouldn't be), then I'll have considered that they've mastered it. That might take one repetition or many ... depending on the student. Efficiency, to my concern, is measured in how easily the student will perform that skill when they're not trying to satisfy an instructor ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Diver0001]

Interesting that you don't like "being efficient", Bob.

That's not how I read that. I thought Bob was saying that he didn't like instructors claiming to be efficient when what they are really doing to going through the motions as fast as possible without thinking about what they're doing.

That's not the same (in my mind) as being "efficient" at introducing a skill or tackling a problem. Much of what (especially) newer instructors do in courses is "fix their own mistakes" and as a result are very inefficient. They don't teach the right things, they don't teach it the right way for a given student, they continue to drill things that the student masters instead of moving on to things that have not been mastered and they spend time re-teaching things when the student starts to learn bad habits right out of the gate because of poor modeling. What you're calling efficiency is getting all that stuff right, which should be a goal of every instructor. I think Bob would agree with that.

I think you would agree with Bob that it's not "efficiency" when (let's call them) lazy instructors call themselves efficient when the truth is that they can't be bothered to account for that nasty thing called "mastery" and are only doing 1/2 the job (if that).

R..

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Gotta agree with both of these guys. Getting someone through all the skills quickly may seem like efficiency but if two weeks later they are not able to instinctively clear a mask, do a proper weight check, or set up their own gear it was not efficient. It waa rushing. Why could be greed, laziness, or simple incompetence on the part of the instructor to effectively teach the skills so the student actually absorbs them. Parroting them back on their knees while having to actually mimic the way the instructor did it in an exaggerated manner is not mastery. If the skill is not instinctive and fluid with out the ridiculous exaggeration it has not been effectively applied by the diver. Indicating they were not told it should be. That is not efficiency. That's poor instruction with insufficient practice time before heading to open water.

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[oly5050user]

Being efficient does not mean taking shortcuts or instructing incorrectly. It means using the time set aside for a course effectively. I cannot believe that there are those who take "being efficient " in a negative view here.
Having been an instructor for several agencies and teaching for 40+ years, certified over a thousand divers from ow to AI here in the northeast and in the USVI, and having owned a LDS, I think I can tell what a class that is ran efficiently vs one filled with alot of wasted time. Showing up to class late, not being prepared , using "ah,uh's,you know what I mean" in class presentations, filling up academic time with personal b.s stories all contribute to a class session that takes too long and has no educational merit. The student should be prepared for class also by having completed reading,knowledge reviews and watched the video at home.
Tell the student what you are going to teach them,teach them the material, tell them what you told them ( state objectives, present content, summary) will keep academic session in a decent time frame and get the message across. It is absolutely ok to use personal experience examples to get a point across, just do not make it where 1/2 of the time in class is spent telling war stories.
For those here who say being efficient means there is little or no repetition of skills--
Confined water skills start out very simple and basic (k.i.s.s) and the student can build on that in a progressive approach. Example; module 1; brief on the 2 standard methods of regulator clearing, demonstrate skill, have students do skill. Once they complete regulator clearing brief on regulator recovery, demonstrate skill, have student do skill and clear regulator. They have now done a minimum of 3 regulator clearing.That is repetition of skill which should be the basis of starting to get muscle memory. All the 20 something skills in a ow course can be tied in together this way and there is no wasted inefficient time.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Being efficient does not mean taking shortcuts or instructing incorrectly. It means using the time set aside for a course effectively. I cannot believe that there are those who take "being efficient " in a negative view here.
Having been an instructor for several agencies and teaching for 40+ years, certified over a thousand divers from ow to AI here in the northeast and in the USVI, and having owned a LDS, I think I can tell what a class that is ran efficiently vs one filled with alot of wasted time. Showing up to class late, not being prepared , using "ah,uh's,you know what I mean" in class presentations, filling up academic time with personal b.s stories all contribute to a class session that takes too long and has no educational merit. The student should be prepared for class also by having completed reading,knowledge reviews and watched the video at home.
Tell the student what you are going to teach them,teach them the material, tell them what you told them ( state objectives, present content, summary) will keep academic session in a decent time frame and get the message across. It is absolutely ok to use personal experience examples to get a point across, just do not make it where 1/2 of the time in class is spent telling war stories.
For those here who say being efficient means there is little or no repetition of skills--
Confined water skills start out very simple and basic (k.i.s.s) and the student can build on that in a progressive approach. Example; module 1; brief on the 2 standard methods of regulator clearing, demonstrate skill, have students do skill. Once they complete regulator clearing brief on regulator recovery, demonstrate skill, have student do skill and clear regulator. They have now done a minimum of 3 regulator clearing.That is repetition of skill which should be the basis of starting to get muscle memory. All the 20 something skills in a ow course can be tied in together this way and there is no wasted inefficient time.

... but that's just doing what you were supposed to have been taught to do during instructor training ... the highlighted words above are, verbatim, in the NAUI Instructor's manual. Everyone is supposed to be adopting those techniques for teaching.

Efficiency isn't measured (to my concern) by hours spent in the class or pool ... it's measured by student retention and comprehension. Too often that word is used to justify skimping on pool or class time by covering material in a hurry without any real metrics for how well the students have grasped what you're trying to teach them.

You can do everything you just described above, but if after class is over your student can't clear a mask without trepidation or check a gauge without first settling on their knees on the bottom, then you didn't do a very efficient job of teaching them.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mlsantos]

I sort of agree with the article above but i think i have to add one more phrase to the "shops" thing. I think Big Chain Resort Dive Shops and ones that are located at high tourist traffic areas apply. I have been diving for 22 years been a career liveaboard Cruise Director and Dive Master for 8.

I cannot count how many times I have guests come on board and through the course of the trip have me reteaching and correcting bad initial instruction. It was so bad that I promised that if I ever became an Instructor one day I would teach alot of the AOWC material during the Openwater Course esp. Peak Performance buoyancy. Too many divers today specially the ones from places in asia like boracay, or thailand in my eyes have no business having an OW certification and I always wondered about this.

After all that time and all that wondering I reluctantly took my IDC and became an instructor. My first job after that was at a very high end resort where diving and courses are 4x what they are anywhere else in the country. They expected me to "barrel" through all confined water skills in 1 two hour session and proceed to plan 2 dives after that session and the following day.

Rushing through the course is an understatement. Thankfully I did not stay there long and am back to being a free lancer where i can run the course at whatever pace i see the students are comfortable with. Giving them enough pool time to start to understand their equipment and their bodies under water before taking them into open water for their check outs.

The saddest part to me is that the "shops" who are probably making the most money out of scuba diving are the ones guilty of bad instruction.

In a nut shell theres nothing i can do really... except make sure that when my name is on the back of a divers cert card the next dive pros wont be saying "oh no not again". Its not about ego and being the best instructor, its just about making sure the students enjoy diving so much that they want to constantly do it. And only patience and proper instruction can bring this about.

 

[KevWind]

Being efficient does not mean taking shortcuts or instructing incorrectly. It means using the time set aside for a course effectively. I cannot believe that there are those who take "being efficient " in a negative view here.
Having been an instructor for several agencies and teaching for 40+ years, certified over a thousand divers from ow to AI here in the northeast and in the USVI, and having owned a LDS, I think I can tell what a class that is ran efficiently vs one filled with alot of wasted time. Showing up to class late, not being prepared , using "ah,uh's,you know what I mean" in class presentations, filling up academic time with personal b.s stories all contribute to a class session that takes too long and has no educational merit. The student should be prepared for class also by having completed reading,knowledge reviews and watched the video at home.
Tell the student what you are going to teach them,teach them the material, tell them what you told them ( state objectives, present content, summary) will keep academic session in a decent time frame and get the message across. It is absolutely ok to use personal experience examples to get a point across, just do not make it where 1/2 of the time in class is spent telling war stories.
For those here who say being efficient means there is little or no repetition of skills--
Confined water skills start out very simple and basic (k.i.s.s) and the student can build on that in a progressive approach. Example; module 1; brief on the 2 standard methods of regulator clearing, demonstrate skill, have students do skill. Once they complete regulator clearing brief on regulator recovery, demonstrate skill, have student do skill and clear regulator. They have now done a minimum of 3 regulator clearing.That is repetition of skill which should be the basis of starting to get muscle memory. All the 20 something skills in a ow course can be tied in together this way and there is no wasted inefficient time.

Absolutely true and totally unrelated per se as to an instructor being shop affiliated or independent. What you are describing is experience , ability and methodology related to teaching, not affiliation.