Reasons why you should not take a course through a dive shop

[261311]

The dive shop closest me seems pretty good for diving, I'm not sure the owner is actually out to make a huge killing in profit. He's there for the sport and its participants. I actually tried talking to him about purchasing a weight belt one day and he said I didn't need one, to go integrated (frankly I feel more comfortable knowing I can ditch partial weights [weight belt and integrated split] as needed rather than a full blow from what I'm learning about safe ascents). I pulled the "If I was crazy enough to be old school, what am I looking at for price?". The answer I got was the oddest anti-sales pitch ever. "Weight is $4 a lb roughly so you'll save a ton of money (was looking at soft weight) buying lead shot and sewing your own pouches".

That said, I do appreciate tips on how to save money but I've also been buying online, ignorant to customs fees (We'll leave total shipping costs incurred out of this, you're probably not reading this post on a toilet). I'd honestly rather my money went to support him because he seems like a genuinely good guy and I like to support business within my country (keeps people off EI). I feel now that I've learned these lessons I'd pay up to 20% on top of end fees saved just to support business close to home, I'm sure we all have some sort of financial tolerance that we'd rather buy local. Any more than that and I truly have to consider what the item is and if I'll need the warranty/ support others more.

Back to the topic, the program offered by my LDS is fulfilling most if not all expectations for my open water training once learning what those should have been (I jumped in, what can I say). I'm happy learning now that after all the instructor and LDS mishaps I've read about, I've managed to find 2 very caring and professional instructors who manage to make some boring content fun and interesting and the same in the DM assisting.

PS: Anonymous dive shop owner, I understand the benefits of buying local now and will support you and the community in situations that I'm able. I hope you're not too miffed when you find out I've gone through another source- the eggs already all over me

 

[DepthCharge]

If a "LDS" want to charge you for a "drysuit course" or an "equipment specialist" course their only in it for the money.
Later,
John

 

[mcguiver]

If a "LDS" want to charge you for a "drysuit course" or an "equipment specialist" course their only in it for the money.
Later,
John

You mean the Drysuit course that requires a day of pool rental, three to five hours of classroom work and a day of open water dives? Why should that be free!?!?

 

[koozemani]

If a "LDS" want to charge you for a "drysuit course" or an "equipment specialist" course their only in it for the money.
Later,
John

And a dozen or so other fluff courses.

 

[Superlyte27]

But I would bet that all shops that are financially stable anno 2013 are at least similar in business model.

The question here is this: do you have evidence to the contrary?

R

Wrong, and Yes I have evidence. Come across the pond and I'll show you.

 

[TMHeimer]

Admittedly I have only skimmed the thread. Seems there are good points made pro and con dive shops. Our shop is the biggest in Atlantic Canada (there is only one other that I know of for maybe 100 miles, and it is quite a bit smaller, I believe). I would have no idea where to find an independent instructor around here. Anyway, I can attest that our shop has never tried to sell me anything--I have always gone either to them or the internet, or another shop I happen to be in to buy equipment. I have taken courses with 3 different shops, including DM and others with our own LDS. I can't recall any of them trying to sell me any courses-- always my idea. With about 16 instructors and maybe 10 DMs on staff, I have actually managed to do a little DMing with them. No real complaints that I can recall.

 

[Primalchrome]

But I would bet that all shops that are financially stable anno 2013 are at least similar in business model.

The question here is this: do you have evidence to the contrary?

Yes. ....and I'll say, if your observations are true of most diving in Europe, I'm glad I live near the Gulf Coast. I've seen evidence of what you've listed in a number of shops over the years. But then again...I've seen the exact opposite in other shops that are still in business.

At the end of the day, your personal experience has led you to seek out an independent model. That's great. My uncle was an independent instructor for many years. He loved it, but I don't think he made a real profit when you looked at the hours involved. It is impressive that you have managed to achieve that balance......but you're really taking a step too far by trying to demonize dive shops based off your limited experience. That's not a slam, it's a reality. No one that has been in a geographically diverse career for only 10 years can speak for the global status of that field.

 

[KD8NPB]

If a "LDS" want to charge you for a "drysuit course" or an "equipment specialist" course their only in it for the money.
Later,
John

Most diveshops run "Buy a drysuit, free training!".

 

[oly5050user]

For those that think they can get better training from an independent, stop and think about it for a moment, it can also go the other way where an instructor tied into a LDS can offer a better, more efficient course than the independent. I currently teach for a LDS here in Westchester NY..Its only Feb here and I alone have already taught 4 different PRIVATE ow courses (total of 6 students) and 1 group course (5 students), and 5 refresher sessions. How many independents can say that? We are not told to keep it short or anything like that. We have our own indoor heated pool on site and offer the most pool time of any other facility in the area. Because of the frequency of teaching here I have to say that our instructors have their instructional methods down to a science, unlike the some time independent instructor who may teach 2 or 3 ow courses a year. Believe me, I see some independents come in and teach here when they rent out the pool/classroom and there can be alot of time wasted that can be better used. Would you want a professional who does their craft on a continual basis,pretty much day in and out, or one who only does their craft once or twice a year and has limited exposure to different situations that some other instructors may find difficult? As I write this there is a class going on in the classroom with another of our instructors and they will go into the pool in a few minutes. I also have a refresher at noon today for 2 people. The more exposure you have to teaching this activity the more "tricks" you learn and you save them in your "bag of tricks" When a situation arises that you have dealt with before you reach into your "bag of tricks" and problem immediately solved. It may take an independent instructor a longer period of time to get their "bag of tricks" filled than an instructor who runs classes on a continual basis.

 

[boulderjohn]

There are solutions for the independent instructor. As an example, I share a group insurance policy with other instructors through an independent business that focuses on dive instruction. When I need pool time, I have partnerships with a handful of shops. I call around to find out which is renting pool time, when, and whether they could accommodate my needs. If so, I share costs for the pool rental with them. It's a win-win ... and the shops I maintain good relationships with benefit not only by having me occasionally share their pool expenses (they often don't need the whole pool anyway), but those are the shops who are more likely to see my students when they need to rent or purchase equipment.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

As I said, things vary greatly by location. The situation is very different next to an ocean. I described life in Colorado and the challenges of being an independent there. I am currently writing from South Florida, and if I lived here I could easily be an independent. Dive shops and charter boats deal with independents all the time here, so they have to have reasonable policies to make that work.