Rapture of the Deep - being narc'd

[rockystock1]

That dive looks amazing, almost like being in the clouds but under the sea. Vis is amazing..
It's strange to watch your wife go from spinning round to swimming up normally,
The deepest I've been is 21msw I'm not looking forward to going deeper and being narcd


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Chairman]

The problem with narcosis, is that most of you are relying on your feelings to detect it. Narcosis can be quite silent with absolutely no obvious manifestations. Many divers are impaired without even realizing it.

Your wife doesn't remember the first two times you signaled anything to her. Wow. She was impaired and didn't even know it. You were impaired too. It probably took you longer to arrive at a solution to your wife's predicament. Admit it or not, but you can be sure that your ability to suss out any problem has been diminished. Your chances of resolving an incident may very well depend on how well you trained before hand.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Link should be fixed, my apologies!

Nitrogen Narcosis - YouTube If it doesn't work let me know!

Looks like The Pit, in Tulum MX. The hydrogen sulfide layer they swim through in the beginning is at about 90-100 feet ... you can see the trees sticking up through it, that were tossed down there when they cleared the parking area. The top of the cone, which you can see toward the end of the video is below the hydrogen sulfide layer at about 130. From what I can see in the video, I'd say they're deeper than that at the end, although they're not supposed to be. You can go to 200+ feet and still be in the cavern zone there ... which is a great way to run a semi-trained, modestly experienced diver like these appear to be out of air if they're not paying attention ... especially on those oversized beer cans they're breathing from.

Like the Blue Hole ... a "signature" dive that they commonly take people to who have no business being there ... (IMO)

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The_Aviator_1]

I normally don't make a point of responding openly to posts which I find offensive. However, I can't help but feel as if in your previous statement "semi-trained, modestly experienced diver like these appear to be" you are insinuating that I had no purpose being where I was? With the type of cavern that The Pit is, as well as how many divers are inside, it is probably exponentially safer than a wall dive, where you could theoretically go to the bottom of the ocean (>200 feet) if you aren't careful. In addressing the AL80's at depth, I don't think there is a person on this forum who holds AOW who hasn't taken one to 120'. I selected the depth of 120' for the previous statement, because at no time did we decent below 120 as was confirmed by three computers (her one and my two). If your semi trained modestly experienced comment was in reference to gear configuration, I elect to gear match with recreational buddies (as she was). I want them to feel comfortable with their gear and mine so I choose not to wear my SMS100 unless they are familiar with it, or the dive requires it (at which point a recreational diver won't be my buddy). This means the whole bright yellow octo hose and no fancy loops of the long hose. Just my plain old open water set. So, (IMO), for someone who wants to try a cavern dive without ever really leaving the straight ascent to the surface area, and who has been on several deep dives previously without any serious buoyancy control issues, The Pit is an excellent experience, probably even more appropriate than Chac Mool, where the potential to get lost is fairly high.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No intention to offend, but to my concern, open water divers with the skills demonstrated in the video have no business in The Pit ... and a great deal of what you just said sounds like rationalization to do a dive you may not be qualified to do simply because you want to. That's fine, as long as nothing goes wrong ... it's when something goes wrong and you lose buoyancy control while focusing on the problem that bad things happen. Yeah, I took some chances with depth on AL80's when I was a relatively new diver ... ironically, now that I'm much more experienced and have much better air consumption and buoyancy control, I'd never do that. Why? Because now I'm also much more aware of the potential consequences of cutting my safety margins that thin.

There are dozens of more appropriate caverns for modestly trained, experienced and equipped divers to enjoy in that part of MX. You can easily find yourself at 200 feet at The Pit without realizing you've just sunk to that depth ... all it takes is about 10 seconds of distraction while you fiddle with your camera. There are several visual clues in that video that the diver lacks sufficient buoyancy control to be in a place where it's so easy to get below recreational depth ... particularly on a single cylinder that's inappropriate for that kind of depth. Those clues include the constant finning, the hand-waving, and the twirling ... someone who needs constant motion to maintain their buoyancy is negatively buoyant, and will sink ... often without recognizing the problem (particularly under the effects of narcosis) ... as soon as they get distracted and stop kicking. This is usually also a diver with a fairly high gas consumption rate, which means they'll chew through the contents of an AL80 way faster than they'll realize. Suddenly you'll find yourself in a very deep place with too little gas to make it to the surface safely. Now your options are limited to either sharing air with someone (who may be in a similar situation) or bolting to the surface. If you're lucky you won't get hurt ... and most times you don't ... but you're relying on luck.

Rationalize it any way you like ... it's your life, your safety, and your freedom of choice ... but if I were the guide I would not be putting that type of diver in that particular dive site. That's just asking for a bad outcome.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I normally don't make a point of responding openly to posts which I find offensive. However, I can't help but feel as if in your previous statement "semi-trained, modestly experienced diver like these appear to be" you are insinuating that I had no purpose being where I was? With the type of cavern that The Pit is, as well as how many divers are inside, it is probably exponentially safer than a wall dive, where you could theoretically go to the bottom of the ocean (>200 feet) if you aren't careful. In addressing the AL80's at depth, I don't think there is a person on this forum who holds AOW who hasn't taken one to 120'. I selected the depth of 120' for the previous statement, because at no time did we decent below 120 as was confirmed by three computers (her one and my two). If your semi trained modestly experienced comment was in reference to gear configuration, I elect to gear match with recreational buddies (as she was). I want them to feel comfortable with their gear and mine so I choose not to wear my SMS100 unless they are familiar with it, or the dive requires it (at which point a recreational diver won't be my buddy). This means the whole bright yellow octo hose and no fancy loops of the long hose. Just my plain old open water set. So, (IMO), for someone who wants to try a cavern dive without ever really leaving the straight ascent to the surface area, and who has been on several deep dives previously without any serious buoyancy control issues, The Pit is an excellent experience, probably even more appropriate than Chac Mool, where the potential to get lost is fairly high.

You show a crappy video which appears to depict your wife flailing around in the water column, and you say she is unresponsive to signals. You carry no redundancy on the dive and then you argue that you (and your wife) are well equipped, properly trained (and qualified) to do the dive?

 

[The_Aviator_1]

NWDiver, I would fully agree that she was not in a desirable situation. I'm in no way attempting to say that things went perfectly on that dive (which I did call and she no longer returned to that environment). I appreciate the way in which you replied, non-confrontational and educational, while inserting both personal experience and factual information.


In response to dumpsterdiver, I am curious as to what your intentions are by your previous comment? Are you attempting to make me "see the light" and realize that I have made a grievous error? If your intent was to educate me or get me to change my ways, by being harsh and obviously having limited details of the situation you are most likely to put me on the defensive and create further agitation. The best method of education is to assure buy in from the student. Asking questions to understand the situation and leading the student to the appropriate answer. While I took initial offense to NWdiver's response, his secondary reply was much more descriptive and addressed his concerns. Additionally adjectives such as "Crappy" video are likely to further alienate me from seeing your point of view. These forums are intended to be a place of open and frank discussion, for learning and teaching alike. As you have instructor next to your name, your presence and opinions carry much further weight with many divers. My case in point, you refer to her as my wife, where in a previous post (on this same thread) I referred to her as my ex-girlfriend. At no point (other than stating I didn't have on my cave gear) did we discuss or were you able to view my set up (maybe I had doubles). Nor were you able to see my position in the water column, my buoyancy skills, nor do you even know my level of training to identify where I may/or may not have exceeded my level of training. The aforementioned questions could have lead you to better make a determination as to weather I exceeded my skill level, or (more negligently) exceeded my training level. My only intent on posting that video was to provide an actual view of someone experiencing the effects of nitrogen narcosis. That video was clearly edited to show just that point. No one here knows what happened previous to (she potentially had perfect control of her position in the water column), or following that clip (maybe I made a decision to leave her alone at a shallower depth and continue the dive solo). My main point being, if you want people to learn, they have to feel free to make mistakes and talk about them with more experienced people, the best way to achieve change is to avoid degrading or disparaging tone while improving the person's thought process.