ranger --> ebay --> BP/Wing

[GeekDiver]

So as I understand from posts made in this thread and other threads it's not just the Ranger or tech styled BC's but all Jacket/tech styled BC's. Let me see if I can sum up the some of advantages/disadvantages of what has been said.

Pro's
1. Simple design possibly making less drag in the water and possibly easer to pack.

2. Less mass so it sinks better, possible elimanation of weight due to material used in Plate.

3. Flexability in configuration due to dif capacity of lift for air cells and web harness

4. More stable with twins due to hard plate

Con's
1. May not be able to configure with enough weight without wearing a weight belt depending on what type of exposure protection worn.

2. Adding weight pouches or pockets possibly complicates the design and possibly increases drag.

3. due to design of simple web harness/plate will not have any padding for extra comfort.

4. Does not have all the built in bells and wistles of a Jacket/Tech styled BC and adding would add to overall cost of BP/Wings.

It appears to me that one is not better than the other but that individual pref and diving styles make one system more approiate for that person as oposed to one type of BC system just being better than the other for general diving

Regards,
GD

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by GeekDiver
But why do you and other experienced tech divers feel the Ranger and other similar req BC’s are less suitable for diving in a req environment than BP/Wings. I bought the Raider because I felt for me it was a better BC than the Ranger and worth the extra money. But my question is, are there specific technical advantages that all BP/Wings have over a tech styled BC or is it just resentment over a poor choice of a specific product ( ie:Ranger ) due to sales and marketing and then unfairly grouped with similar products.

Geek,
Resentment is much to strong a term... more like disappointment...

And not everyone who had a Ranger (or similar BC) was even disappointed... I certainly enjoyed mine... right up to the day that I tried a bp/wing....

What really got me was the uncluttered feeling and the ability to kick and then glide... not having to push the Ranger around through the water was a joy... but I wouldn't have even known that the Ranger was a drag if I hadn't tried the bp/wing.

You will see from the poll that people don't go the other way... "Boy I really liked my bp/wing until I tried XXX BC and now I sold my bp/wing at a big loss on ebay."

I am not familiar with your Raider BC and cannot comment upon it... I would let you try a bp/wing for comparison if your lived in the PNW.

You would immeadiately see the advantage.

 

[Lost Yooper]

GD,

The only reasons a recreational diver might want a BP/wing are:

- If you wanted the ultimate in simplicity and reliability.

- If you wanted the ultimate in efficiency and streamlining.

- If you wanted the ultimate in adaptability.

- If you want the ultimate in comfort underwater.

- If you want a system that helps facilitate proper horizontal trim in the water.

- If you're interested in purchasing the last BC for a really long time.

- If you're interested in spending less money than many other recreational and "tech" BC's on the market.

Other than those few minor things, a BP/wing may not be the best choice for you.

Take care .

Mike

 

[Hal Iotis]

LY - I'll be able to verify those claims shortly ! The drag problem with stab jackets may not be so bad for drift diving such as Cozumel, but I sure notice drag when doing a beach dive through with a long surface swim through waves and kelp, especially after walking down the cliff and across the beach.

It's funny how I didn't quite put a finger on why I wasn't enjoying diving as much, but now I realize how much more streamlined I was with a simple tank and backpack with horsecollar BC. Most of my early diving was shallow beach dives, so I didn't need a lot of added buoyancy.

 

[roakey]

GeekDiver,

What can we say? Your comments are typical of someone who has never tried a backplate, or has just looked at one in a dive shop and decided that “It didn't look comfortable.”

Looks are nothing, performance is everything.

So-called “technical BCs” are all looks. Backplates are all performance, both for recreational and technincal diving. We're trying to save you some money that's all. If you want to impress the chicks on the boat in Cozumel, go for a fashion-tech BC festooned with D rings and adjustments. You'll look cool and move through the water with the hydrodynamics of an inflated puffer fish.

If you want your diving to excell, get a backplate.

Pro and con all you want, just don't say we didn't try and steer you straight.

Roak

 

[CCDeep]

look at this picture, this is a buddy in cozumel:

http://www.rogerandjudycarlson.com/roger/2001cozshel/P8131737.JPG

Look how streamlined he is. That's what I want. This guy was swimming back and forth between dive groups as quickly as a happy dog runs around on land, and he used no air. Granted, he's in great shape, but his gear is helping him.

I agree with Herman, I dive like he does, but I will trade all the crap in my pockets and clipped to my bc for another 5 minutes of bottom time. Being streamlined will help me, so I am leaving behind everything I don't absolutely need.

Incidentally, I have worn out a ranger and a black diamond, but I checked the ebay box anyway.

On my ranger, I had the grommets pull out of the cummerbund, causing the shoulder straps to come loose. Happened on land, but once I was hit in the face by the grommet. It hurt. Both times it happened, it was a little sporty. The ranger just couldn't handle my LP 120 & integrated weights. That's a load you don't need coming loose, by the way, even on land. The ranger was an old one, I think the design has gotten better. What I liked least about the ranger was the lack of structure in it, try changing tanks in a rolling swell in an inflatable and you'll see what I mean. A bit of stiffener, not necessarily a backplate, is a real help, and I've found that adding a bit of 1" web to hang the bc on the tank neck makes any bc more usable for me (open water tank swapper, very low risk of entanglement).

If anybody can help me pick a set of tropical wings for my new backplate (thanks again Fred), please see my other thread on the halcyon 18 & dive rite travel wings.

thanks,

Roger

 

[GeekDiver]

UP, Yooper and the rest,

Thats what I like about this board. No one flamed me and all offered honest views about why they worked for them.

No I didn't get to try one out yet but at some point and time I'm sure I will get the chance in the near future. I think Texasmike and his bunch will be in Austin in May I might try to hook up with them, I'm sure someone there will have a BP/wing rig.

I checked them out in the store and my Bro-inlaw dives with a BP horse collar setup (not because he has to but because thats what he learned in and likes best) I don't care for looks and was not a deciding factor. Fit was the first. I didn't want to wear a weight belt and the tech styled BC seamed to be as close as you could get to function as BP Wing setup. I chouse the Raider over the Ranger due to it was stiffer, had all the goodie options already built in, more adjustable, biger pockets, and felt more comfortable. Oh I forgot about the weight pouches there position is adjustable and have caring handles.

Thanks To all the imput and explaining on why you prefer them and not just simply saying they are better.

Regards,
GD

 

[tombiowami]

Just noticed no one has mentioned it, but Extreme Exposure will let you buy the bp/wings and whatever else you want, try it for a month, and if you do not like it, send it back no questions asked.

Many people on this board have bought from EE, I don't hear anyone taking them up on the offer to return except for the weight pouches, which is mainly people going back to the simplicity of the belt.

On my first few dives with the Ranger/5mm wetsuit I was taking down about 18lbs of weight.

With the bp/wings I am down to 9, 6 in the bp and 3 lbs of light, shears, knife, spring straps, fins. No weight belt. I just need to make sure I can swim it up from depth since there is no ditchable weight right now and I will be set. If I have problems swimming it up, then I will just get an alum bp and put a few pounds on a belt.

Tommy

 

[metridium]

Originally posted by GeekDiver
Con's
1. May not be able to configure with enough weight without wearing a weight belt depending on what type of exposure protection worn.

2. Adding weight pouches or pockets possibly complicates the design and possibly increases drag.

3. due to design of simple web harness/plate will not have any padding for extra comfort.

4. Does not have all the built in bells and wistles of a Jacket/Tech styled BC and adding would add to overall cost of BP/Wings.

1. True. However, if you're using the 15lb ACB pockets and SS backplate, that's 36lbs accounted for. If you need more weight than that, you can add weights to your tank, if trim permits.

2. I don't consider weight pockets a complication, in contrast to the problems I've had with shifting weight belts and the need for compression-related adjustments. My weight pockets have very little added drag (probably none), positioned in the slipstream of my shoulders as they are.

3. I suspect this would be an issue only for those who dive exclusively in a swimsuit and t-shirt. I always use at least a 3mm - even in the tropics - for exposure protection and to avoid heat loss (this is especially true when doing multiple dives). I've never had any comfort issues with either of my backplates.

Anyone here ever dive with a 0.5mm or lycra skin and a backplate? Did you have any need for padding?

4. What bells and whistles would you need? ACB pockets? A storage pack? Add those and the cost is equivalent with a Ranger. Pockets? That's what the drysuit's for.

Cheers!

 

[Lost Yooper]

Anyone here ever dive with a 0.5mm or lycra skin and a backplate? Did you have any need for padding?

I dove with mine in Hawaii several times with nothing on and loved every minute of it. I've also done a lot of diving in the pool with students. You just don't know it's there.

Mike