jetblast00
Contributor
By popular demand...
who has done the ranger --> ebay --> BP/Wing maneuver
who has done the ranger --> ebay --> BP/Wing maneuver
ranger --> ebay --> BP/Wing
- Thread starter jetblast00
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Lost Yooper
Guest
Not exactly. I went from some a Sherwood jacket (which I sold) to a Dive Rite bungied wing convolution (which went to Ebay after a few years) to my Halcyon rig. I didn't do quite as badly as some I've seen 
.
Mike
. Mike
Thanks Jet Man,
I can't complain about my Ranger...
Five years of fun and $325 back (lost a hun)...
BTW... still got a small in the garage... any takers???
Shoot, who am I kidding...
Like I'm gonna be able to sell a Ranger on a thread like this
I can't complain about my Ranger...
Five years of fun and $325 back (lost a hun)...
BTW... still got a small in the garage... any takers???
Shoot, who am I kidding...
Like I'm gonna be able to sell a Ranger on a thread like this
Sorry to disappoint you but went from an early 80's Teckna jacket BC to Ranger, stop. I have been following the BP discussions for a while but decided to keep out of the them, guess I will get in the fray. I have looked into a backpack but frankly, I have not been impressed. I can see their advantages for serious tech diving but for me- <100 ft, warm water, no cave, single AL-80's- they simply don't offer the features I want. I want (and use) pockets, I want a good intergrated weight system, I want releasable shoulder straps, I want a BC that I can re-adjust quickly, none of which a BP will do. What I don't need is twin 100's or stage bottles or 80 lbs of lift. A smaller bladder would be nice but for what a travel wing cost, I can get a Scout BC (baby Ranger) with all the stuff I want. I suspect that I am not alone in the rec diver community. A lot of the "advantages" claimed by the BP fans really don't mean that much to me or are over stated IMNSHO. And my I suggest you look at the BP's and wings for sale on ebay as well.....there were a bunch when I was looking into possibly getting a BP/travel wing for travel use.
OP
jetblast00
Contributor
You are absolutely right!
Mods, Please add
"I did the BP/Wing --> ebay --> other maneuver"
to the poll
I should have included it before.
While there are people who don't see the need for the BP/Wing system in rec diving, others recognize that while they are not neccessary they can add to rec diving all the things that make them a requirement in tech diving, saftey, commonality, simplicity, etc...
I can understand not being impressed from looking at them, but I hope that you will have and take advantage of the opportunity to give them a try. If you then still think that they're not for you as a rec diver, ok, but at least you will have given them a shot
Mods, Please add
"I did the BP/Wing --> ebay --> other maneuver"
to the poll
I should have included it before.
While there are people who don't see the need for the BP/Wing system in rec diving, others recognize that while they are not neccessary they can add to rec diving all the things that make them a requirement in tech diving, saftey, commonality, simplicity, etc...
I can understand not being impressed from looking at them, but I hope that you will have and take advantage of the opportunity to give them a try. If you then still think that they're not for you as a rec diver, ok, but at least you will have given them a shot
Please allow me revise my statement to maybe make it more clear. When I said I "looked" at them, I should have said I investigated them. Visual appearance of them is unimportant to me. I am only interested in how something performs and that it does the job I require it to do. I have no doubt that in an extreme enviroment a BP is the way to go. However, in the type of diving that I do, it's "advantages" become unimportant at best and a nuisance at worst.
For example, you imply that a BP is safer than my Ranger. Given the type of diving I do, exactly how is it safer? Very few diving deaths are caused by malfunctioning BC's. Of these I suspect a stuck inflater valve is the most commom malfunction on BC's of either type and both have similar type valves. The failure rate should be the same. Or is it the quick releases on the shoulder straps? I have yet to see one fail, although I am positive one has, but even if it did, I only see it as a minor problem. To me at least, the advantages of them vastly outweigh the possibility (and consiquences) of one failing. I can change the strap adjustment on my BC very quickly, say when I decide the wetsuit I have on is too hot/cold and change it. Unless I don't understand how the strapping on a BP works (and I have an old style one in frount of me), it's going to take a lot more time to re-adjust it.
Commonality? If someone can't figure out my weight system and my octo in less than 30 seconds, I don't want them as a buddy. Oh and by the way, I do dive with my octo in a necklace, that makes sence to me. On the other hand, if I were diving caves (I am cavern cert) where siltout was a possibility, I would want to have identical equipment. It just does not happen where I dive.
Simplicity. There are times that this make sence and times it does not. I drive an automatic car because I don't like to change gears. It is not nearly as simple a system as a manual transmission and has a greater possibility to fail but I have tow trucks and repair shops close by so the consiquences of failure are minimul, I accept the risk for the reward of not having to shift gears. If I lived in the outback I would have a manual transmision because they are more robust and less likely to fail. In addition, as the repair shop would be much farther off the consiquences of it failing are much greater. I see the BC in a similar light, the consiquences of a BC failure 1/2 mile back in a cave is grave, at 25 ft in a warm reef, its a nuisance.
I fully understand the logic behind the BP and agree that in more extreme diving it is the way to go. I guess what I have trouble understanding is why BP users seem to not understand that some of us don't do that type of diving and we want/like the other options that are avalible to us on other types of BC's. They also refuse to accept that given our diving style, our BC's are as safe, comfortable and enjoyable to us as theirs are to them.
In all fairness, I already have plans to test dive a BP when the water warms up some. One of the board members has offered to loan me his to try.
And you wonder why I have been staying out of this discussion.
For example, you imply that a BP is safer than my Ranger. Given the type of diving I do, exactly how is it safer? Very few diving deaths are caused by malfunctioning BC's. Of these I suspect a stuck inflater valve is the most commom malfunction on BC's of either type and both have similar type valves. The failure rate should be the same. Or is it the quick releases on the shoulder straps? I have yet to see one fail, although I am positive one has, but even if it did, I only see it as a minor problem. To me at least, the advantages of them vastly outweigh the possibility (and consiquences) of one failing. I can change the strap adjustment on my BC very quickly, say when I decide the wetsuit I have on is too hot/cold and change it. Unless I don't understand how the strapping on a BP works (and I have an old style one in frount of me), it's going to take a lot more time to re-adjust it.
Commonality? If someone can't figure out my weight system and my octo in less than 30 seconds, I don't want them as a buddy. Oh and by the way, I do dive with my octo in a necklace, that makes sence to me. On the other hand, if I were diving caves (I am cavern cert) where siltout was a possibility, I would want to have identical equipment. It just does not happen where I dive.
Simplicity. There are times that this make sence and times it does not. I drive an automatic car because I don't like to change gears. It is not nearly as simple a system as a manual transmission and has a greater possibility to fail but I have tow trucks and repair shops close by so the consiquences of failure are minimul, I accept the risk for the reward of not having to shift gears. If I lived in the outback I would have a manual transmision because they are more robust and less likely to fail. In addition, as the repair shop would be much farther off the consiquences of it failing are much greater. I see the BC in a similar light, the consiquences of a BC failure 1/2 mile back in a cave is grave, at 25 ft in a warm reef, its a nuisance.
I fully understand the logic behind the BP and agree that in more extreme diving it is the way to go. I guess what I have trouble understanding is why BP users seem to not understand that some of us don't do that type of diving and we want/like the other options that are avalible to us on other types of BC's. They also refuse to accept that given our diving style, our BC's are as safe, comfortable and enjoyable to us as theirs are to them.
In all fairness, I already have plans to test dive a BP when the water warms up some. One of the board members has offered to loan me his to try.
And you wonder why I have been staying out of this discussion.
SeaTec Original Manta -> eBay -> BP
Can I check the "ranger ebay BP" vote?
Roak
Can I check the "ranger ebay BP" vote?
Roak
OP
jetblast00
Contributor
herman,
It feels good to get it out doesn't it?. I wasn't attacking your choice of BC, please don't take it that way. I was eluding to some of the same things that you reiterated and went deeper into in terms of saftey, commonality, and simplicity. And I agree with you, I don't think that all of that is entirely necessary in rec diving, but it doesn't hurt. It's a choice, you've made yours, explained why and I respect that. (PS, in my own poll, I checked that I own, and use, both... )
roak,
citing the general intent and purpose of question, I think that 'ranger' can be interpreted as any BC that was found to be lacking compared to the BP/W. yea, sure, we'll count it
It feels good to get it out doesn't it?
. I wasn't attacking your choice of BC, please don't take it that way. I was eluding to some of the same things that you reiterated and went deeper into in terms of saftey, commonality, and simplicity. And I agree with you, I don't think that all of that is entirely necessary in rec diving, but it doesn't hurt. It's a choice, you've made yours, explained why and I respect that. (PS, in my own poll, I checked that I own, and use, both... )roak,
citing the general intent and purpose of question, I think that 'ranger' can be interpreted as any BC that was found to be lacking compared to the BP/W.
yea, sure, we'll count it
Attacked?! Nah, spirited debate, be glad to dive with you anytime, even if you do wear one of those things. I have just seen a lot of post directed at the Ranger lately and no one had responded with the other side of the issue. It does seem odd that the Ranger is the only BC that this seems to happens to. I have not seen a similar post naming say Scuba Pro or Dacor.....!!!! I have it!! Ranger Envy that's what it is, I knew there had to be an explanation!
I stayed up too late last night on this.
I stayed up too late last night on this.
Yes...if you stayed up at all over this you stayed up too late
The reason the Ranger gets slapped a lot is because so many of us have had them.... but the same is probably true for any BC that bills itself as *Technical* when in fact it is not.
Many bought the Ranger because it was *Tech* looking and then found that they wanted more than just *Tech* looks.... they actually wanted to *Tech* dive & that for many lead to the BP/wing. At this point many Ranger owners felt that the Ranger had been an expensive diversion.
Recreational style BC wearers having gone to Tech diving with BP/wings are not as likely to call their old BC a fraud because it wasn't pretending to be *Tech*.
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