Herman's viewpoint is pretty much exactly mine as well. This topic kind of came up indirectly in a different post a couple weeks ago. I just wasn't able to word my viewpoint as well as Herman and I was misinterpreted by some members as attacking a pro-BP/Wings user in defense of the Ranger with my response, when in fact that wasn't my intent at all.
ranger --> ebay --> BP/Wing
- Thread starter jetblast00
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TexasMike
Contributor
Add "I did the BP/Wing --> ebay --> other maneuver"
Done
Done
chrisnycdive
Guest
....I went straight to the BP/wing. Started diving it w/ a single AL80, loved it then. Love it even more now with doubles.
Chris
:tails:
Chris
:tails:
Ranger prototype - still dive it for single tank dives
BP/wings, preffered with doubles
BP/wings, preffered with doubles
I'm new so my .02 cents dosen't count for much.
I wanted a ranger but then saw the Raider. I can Adjust the harness up or down, the sides in or out, the weight pouches to the ft, mid or rear, have tank trim weights, 50lbs of lift with option for redundant air cell and will hold 42 lbs of weight, padded lumbar support, adjustable D-rings, dual tank option, etc,etc,etc. What more could you ask for in a req BC.
A BP/Wing setup I would need a weight belt, have no padding for lumbar support/comfort and even pockets would be extra. I'f I don't plan anything but req diving why would I want a BP/Wing?
I have also wondered why everyone here always sings the BP song and dance when someone expresses a thought about the Ranger or similer type BC. I hope this dosn't come off the wrong way but if BP are so great why? and whats wrong with a tec styled BC? Am I just to novice to know any better or is there some thing I'm missing or is it because BP/Wings are just trendy.
Best regards,
GD
I wanted a ranger but then saw the Raider. I can Adjust the harness up or down, the sides in or out, the weight pouches to the ft, mid or rear, have tank trim weights, 50lbs of lift with option for redundant air cell and will hold 42 lbs of weight, padded lumbar support, adjustable D-rings, dual tank option, etc,etc,etc. What more could you ask for in a req BC.
A BP/Wing setup I would need a weight belt, have no padding for lumbar support/comfort and even pockets would be extra. I'f I don't plan anything but req diving why would I want a BP/Wing?
I have also wondered why everyone here always sings the BP song and dance when someone expresses a thought about the Ranger or similer type BC. I hope this dosn't come off the wrong way but if BP are so great why? and whats wrong with a tec styled BC? Am I just to novice to know any better or is there some thing I'm missing or is it because BP/Wings are just trendy.
Best regards,
GD
bp/wing gets mention when folks start talking about the Ranger or other Tech style BCs because of what the poll at the beginning of this thread demonstrates. A few of the folks on this board have lost money buying the wrong thing and they just want to keep others from making the same mistake.
You will find the reasons why the bp/wing is preferred over the pseudo-tech BCs if you do the research of the archives.
But... hey.... if the Ranger or (Raider) satisfies your needs then by all means get it. Tech BCs are very trendy right now.
UP,
I value your opinion as your posts are often balanced pro and con in some shape, form or fashion backed by experience. But why do you and other experienced tech divers feel the Ranger and other similar req BCs are less suitable for diving in a req environment than BP/Wings. I bought the Raider because I felt for me it was a better BC than the Ranger and worth the extra money. But my question is, are there specific technical advantages that all BP/Wings have over a tech styled BC or is it just resentment over a poor choice of a specific product ( ie:Ranger ) due to sales and marketing and then unfairly grouped with similar products.
Here is some of my research on the issue:
You will find the reasons why the bp/wing is preferred over the pseudo-tech BCs if you do the research of the archives.
As for why they are *dissed* I think that is a function of disappointment....
Many thought they were getting a Technical BC....
And found they had gotten something else....
Aren't most of the *dissers* former Ranger owners?
At first blush I would have to say that it is the dealer's fault since authorized sales of Rangers are through the LDS. I know of one chain that encourages the DMs and instructors to buy and use the Ranger and it is obvious (to me) why so many of the students end up with them.
However I would probably have to eat at least half my words if the truth were known. When someone sees something that they want in a shop (say a new Ranger) and someone (say the dealer) tries to talk them out of it the result can be more than a lost sale... it can be a lost customer. So maybe you are right... the purchaser is really culpable. I don't fault Zeagle for making a product that appeals to certain divers.
Well now to the crux of it:
The Ranger is a floppy rig... all of it.
The tank flops....
The weight flops....
The bladder flops....
The whole thing flops....
Where do you tighten it down so that it doesn't flop???
That said... some folks actually like *floppy*
As for the bladder... the Ranger is not good at UW trim with air in the bladder....
Regards,
GD
I value your opinion as your posts are often balanced pro and con in some shape, form or fashion backed by experience. But why do you and other experienced tech divers feel the Ranger and other similar req BCs are less suitable for diving in a req environment than BP/Wings. I bought the Raider because I felt for me it was a better BC than the Ranger and worth the extra money. But my question is, are there specific technical advantages that all BP/Wings have over a tech styled BC or is it just resentment over a poor choice of a specific product ( ie:Ranger ) due to sales and marketing and then unfairly grouped with similar products.
Here is some of my research on the issue:
You will find the reasons why the bp/wing is preferred over the pseudo-tech BCs if you do the research of the archives.
As for why they are *dissed* I think that is a function of disappointment....
Many thought they were getting a Technical BC....
And found they had gotten something else....
Aren't most of the *dissers* former Ranger owners?
At first blush I would have to say that it is the dealer's fault since authorized sales of Rangers are through the LDS. I know of one chain that encourages the DMs and instructors to buy and use the Ranger and it is obvious (to me) why so many of the students end up with them.
However I would probably have to eat at least half my words if the truth were known. When someone sees something that they want in a shop (say a new Ranger) and someone (say the dealer) tries to talk them out of it the result can be more than a lost sale... it can be a lost customer. So maybe you are right... the purchaser is really culpable. I don't fault Zeagle for making a product that appeals to certain divers.
Well now to the crux of it:
The Ranger is a floppy rig... all of it.
The tank flops....
The weight flops....
The bladder flops....
The whole thing flops....
Where do you tighten it down so that it doesn't flop???
That said... some folks actually like *floppy*
As for the bladder... the Ranger is not good at UW trim with air in the bladder....
Regards,
GD
tombiowami
Contributor
I'll hop up as a new diver who used the Ranger then went to bp/wings. Tech maybe, but just getting some dives in now before going that way.
The bp/wings is just easier to dive with an ol alum80 than the Ranger IMO. Most tech bcs I see are deemed tech because they look tech and have a bunch of d rings all over and straps criss crossing.
I love well designed, simple things, and the bp/wings are the epitome of that.
Tommy
The bp/wings is just easier to dive with an ol alum80 than the Ranger IMO. Most tech bcs I see are deemed tech because they look tech and have a bunch of d rings all over and straps criss crossing.
I love well designed, simple things, and the bp/wings are the epitome of that.
Tommy
Hal Iotis
Guest
The reason I am switching to BP/wings (just ordered a Halcyon rig yesterday) is that I felt like I had never successfully made the transition to jacket style BC's. When I got my NAUI Sport certification in 1978, we used Dacor backpacks with a single web strap and a horsecollar BC with crotch strap. Power inflators were not widely used. I could hang comfortably on the surface, never had a problem descending, never felt like I needed more "stability" or buoyancy.
As an aside, nothing was clipped to the BC, with the theory being that it was an entanglement hazard. Rather, the weightbelt had a whole load of ab irons, game bags, fish stringer (as a teenager, I really, really wanted to emulate Mike Nelson).
If you get entangled, just dump the weight belt and you're free to rocket to the surface 
I tried to keep up with the trends by buying an early Sea-Tec BC. Not too bad. Then AL 80's replaced steel 72's as the predominant tank on the market. Before you know it, I had flotation all around my chest, shoulders, stomach, etc. and I was swimming in my BC, fidgeting with it at depth due to wetsuit compression, and rasslin' to keep it in place at the end of every dive.
Then I lusted after a Ranger, and almost bought one since it was back-to-black and had D rings. I have never tried one though, so I cannot comment on that particular model. The problem I see with most BCs though, is that pushing that much stuff through the water is really, really tiring. Plus, the location of various items such as power inflator button, buckles, etc. changes with the position of the BC and its degree of inflation.
I'm really looking forward to using a buoyancy and tank mounting system that is simple and can fit easily in my dive bag. I'm also looking forward to eliminating a weight belt through the use of a stainless steel backplate and ballast system.
Note: I'm returning to diving after a two year hiatus, and am trying to eliminate the factors that kept me from diving. These include cold (getting a drysuit), excessive gear (getting a BP/wings), lack of confidence in skills (getting more training). I'm no expert, these are just my personal experiences and choices. Your mileage may vary.
p.s., Thanks for all of the great advice and information on this board! I respect the fact that people have varying preferences and experiences, and that nobody should make choices based solely on what they read here. Nevertheless, some of the info really strikes a chord with the issues I have been dealing with in getting back to diving.
As an aside, nothing was clipped to the BC, with the theory being that it was an entanglement hazard. Rather, the weightbelt had a whole load of ab irons, game bags, fish stringer (as a teenager, I really, really wanted to emulate Mike Nelson).
If you get entangled, just dump the weight belt and you're free to rocket to the surface I tried to keep up with the trends by buying an early Sea-Tec BC. Not too bad. Then AL 80's replaced steel 72's as the predominant tank on the market. Before you know it, I had flotation all around my chest, shoulders, stomach, etc. and I was swimming in my BC, fidgeting with it at depth due to wetsuit compression, and rasslin' to keep it in place at the end of every dive.
Then I lusted after a Ranger, and almost bought one since it was back-to-black and had D rings. I have never tried one though, so I cannot comment on that particular model. The problem I see with most BCs though, is that pushing that much stuff through the water is really, really tiring. Plus, the location of various items such as power inflator button, buckles, etc. changes with the position of the BC and its degree of inflation.
I'm really looking forward to using a buoyancy and tank mounting system that is simple and can fit easily in my dive bag. I'm also looking forward to eliminating a weight belt through the use of a stainless steel backplate and ballast system.
Note: I'm returning to diving after a two year hiatus, and am trying to eliminate the factors that kept me from diving. These include cold (getting a drysuit), excessive gear (getting a BP/wings), lack of confidence in skills (getting more training). I'm no expert, these are just my personal experiences and choices. Your mileage may vary.
p.s., Thanks for all of the great advice and information on this board! I respect the fact that people have varying preferences and experiences, and that nobody should make choices based solely on what they read here. Nevertheless, some of the info really strikes a chord with the issues I have been dealing with in getting back to diving.
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