Quick snip-et of personal news

[jbd]

Your son is pretty close to same size as my 11 y/o new diver. She's 10 lbs lighter and 1" shorter. We also came to the decision to limit her depth to 30 ft for now. I'm curious as to how and why you came to your decision on the 30' limit.

 

[Ontario Diver]

JDB;

Why 30', a few of mine and his reasons...
1) I want to teach my boy to be conservative. He knows that the "official" PADI limit is 40' and that we can set our own limits that are "safer" than others.
2) His comfort level - He can snorkel to 15-16' on his own and is comforatble with the concept of being able to CESA from 25-30'
3) There are enough decent dive sites to get him started at 30' max but not many at 20'
4) It will be a while before he is "allowed" to go to 60' (or even 130'). Starting with a self-imposed limit of 30'means that we can work towards an interm new "goal" of 40'. I want to keep him challenged.

We like to remind each other that we don't go more than "one mistake deep"

 

[Butch103]

Hey JBD..............I know all about it. Son 15 Daughter 17. Except my theory is as follows............from the time they become teenagers until they hit the 20s they become completely braindead and oblivious to anyone over 25. At the moment they reach 20 their brains reactivate to full mode and they become human again. They are no longer "stepford children".

The next stage is when they fall in love and decide to get married or co-habitat. It is at this point the realize everything we, as parents told them is in fact TRUE.

Best of luck to the newer parents, please don't worry or continue for these comments to begin to happen to your own "bundles of joy" it just happens instantanious and without warning. Just live with it and enjoy it.

Butch :loopy:

 

[wheezy]

TEN YEAR OLDS DIVING... ARE YOU CRAZY....

I know PADI let's them get started diving that soon, but it's just crazy. Of course most people don't hear about it but there have been several 10 year old's KILLED in training.

I strongly suggest you reconsider even discussing the idea of diving with a child that young. If you can't tell I'm a NAUI guy and think PADI is a joke for several reasons. Mainly Sport Chalet's... "here give us your money clear your mask and here's your card... thanks for the $300 see you in the water" attitude.

PADI= Put Anohter Dollar In... FOR A REASON..

Anyhow, I really don't think that any children should dive until they are at least 15 or 16 years old. It's such a crucial time in a child's development both physically and mentally. Depth and breathing compressed air has diverse affects on one's body and is no place for kids.

Point is, kids shouldn't dive... PERIOD Free diving is one thing.. SCUBA is another.

Sorry.. I know this was a "happy o' my kids dive forum" but it just eeks me when I see those 10 and 11 year olds with SCUBA gear on. Makes me wonder what in the world PADI is thinking???

I won't let my kids dive, until they are at least 16

Can you imagine having to swim your 10 year old to the surface in an emergency... or having them suffer a blown lung ... I can't

 

[Ontario Diver]

Thanks Wheezy;

I don't think that any of the parents desire to handle thier children's emergency. But we do want to share what we love and what they want to do. And if there inforamtion that I don't have, I am quick to admit that I'm wrong and will change my mind.

As a parent, we try to set up a safe environment for them and as divers we make sure that we are trained as well (My son will not dive with me until I pass my RD course.) So if my child does Football, Hockey, or Horseback riding are the risks similar? Probably, and I make sure that there is appropriate First Aid and Hospital care availiable before we undertake the activity.

I believe that 60 is too deep. But my research suggests that one atmosphere of pressure is OK. Children with burns or other trauma can get pressure therapy that exceeds the limits that we are discussing. (30' as a limit is what JDB and I are working with to limit the exposure and the pressure.)

If you have some medical, technical, or scientific studies that I haven't seen; I'd really appreciate the chance to learn from them.

By the way I don't think that it is a PADI vs NAUI issue. Children as young as 8 are being trained in Europe and are diving much deeper than 30'. - Not PADI and not NAUI, Can't remember the Cert. Authority maybe SSI or SDI?

Anyhow, thanks for your input. It will keep us rethinking and re-evaluating our decisions.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Wheezy,
You sure did come out swinging on this lil proud parent thread. It's bound to get you in some hot water, but then again... I can respect that!

Just curious as to when and how the 10 year olds you've mentioned died during training. I'm asking because I know you're close to PADI's headquarters as I am, and I know your Sport Chalet involvement. Anything you know of first hand?

 

[jbd]

I understand the point you are making, but obviously since my 11y/o is diving I choose to disagree. I see alot of kids much younger than 12 that are operating dirt bikes, three wheelers and 4 wheelers in competive environments--ie races jumping etc. I've seen kids operating boats and PWC's. My opinion is that these kids have no real concept of the dangers that are involved. My experience with football as a youngster have left me with badly banged up knees one of them was supposed to leave me with the loss of the leg around age 40(but I still have it) Everything we do involves risk. I have done as much research as I can and I think that the risks for my daughter are reasonable as long as we dive conservatively ie the limits that Ontario Diver mentioned. I found it interesting that OD and I came up with the same parameters for children of the same age and physical size. I have heard another NAUI member make the same statements you have just made about age and developement. Keep in mind that up until the 1980's(I think) there was no age limit. I know a dive shop owner who leearned at age 10 before the age limits he has not noted anything negative about his development or any apparent health problems that could be attributed to diving at an early age.

I also would like to know about any youngsters that have died or been injured during dive training or after training for that matter. I think this is important information for any parent that has or is thinking of letting their children dive.

 

[wheezy]

O.K. I always start off a little on the harsh side.

The main reason I say that children should NOT dive is because there is such a small margin for error. Diving is VERY safe, of course, we all know that. BUT, like I said there is such a small margin for mistakes... and when one is all it takes to end a life... ESPECIALLY the life of MY CHILD.. as my cousin Vinny would say "FORGET ABOUT IT"

Football HECK NO.. I wan't allowed to play; HOCKEY nope, baseball.. yes baseball was about all I was allowed to do as a YOUNG child... I hit 16 and went nuts bought a dirtbike started downhill racing and I bodysurf the biggest waves in the world... but not at 10 years old. THEY ARE NOT MENTALLY OR PHYSICALLY CAPABLE in my opinion. I was 10 (and not even that long ago... LOL) and there was not even a concept of mortality at that age. I hit eleven, CRUSHED my chest broke my sternum broke some ribs and punctured both my lungs... I LEARNED THAT LESSON REAL FAST.

If you feel that your 10 or 11 year old is capable of diving in 30' of water.. FINE.. remember it only takes 3 feet of water to embolise.. PERIOD.. Strong current in 30' of water HECK YES ... Sea urchin ... fire coral.. I don't know... What I do know is that MY KIDS WON'T DIVE Until they can at least Drive...

About the Sport Chalet thing Mario: PERSONALLY I don't know squat first hand I admit.. however.. my LDS main DI (whom I trust with my life) used to work very closely with SC and has told me horror stories about the stores and some of their "been diving 6 months instructors" after the switch from NAUI to PADI...

And I don't like SSI or any of the other organizations either just as a note.. I'm stubborn and possibly thick headed.. but the bottom line is.. MY KIDS WON'T ride Dirtbikes... won't play football... or DIVE until I feel that they are totally capable of doing so ON THEIR OWN.

Don't mean to say you guys are BAD for allowing your children to dive, I just think you really need to think about the consequences, and how the rest of YOUR life would pan out if something did happen. Personally I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

This is all written warm heartedly and not meant to rip on anyone... just my own thickheaddedness and GOD I SOUND LIKE MY DAD

 

[Mario S Caner]

Well honestly, I can tell you plenty of horror stories of Sport Chalet Instructors as well, or any other shops instructors for that matter. That's why we emphasize the instructor so much, and not the shop. There are inexperienced and non-caring jerks all over the place. Not all of us are like that though. There's always been mud throwing in this industry. That's something that's gotta stop. We can work toward weeding out the ones that don't belong. I'm not saying we should go on a witch hunt, I'm just saying that if we know someone is dangerous, why don't we do something about it? There has been a few instances where something colossally wrong has been brought up here, but nothing has been done about it. One story in particular comes to mind. Where students out in Oklahoma were being instructed by a guy whom wasn't an instructor and then receiving cert cards from someone entirely different! :fury: What ever happened to that fella? The thread kinda went away... does anyone know which one I'm talking about? A member who had first hand knowledge of it brought it up, asked for advice, received more than enough of it, and then quieted down. No follow up info to my knowledge was posted. That's the type of bad apple I'm talking about kicking out of the industry for good. Bye Bye fella! Don't let the door hitcha where the good lord splitcha! :livid:

------

Down from my soapbox now! hehe

 

[ScubaBaby]

Wheezy...
With PADI if you dive under 16 you have to be accompanied anyway...I don't have such strong feelings against kids diving as long as they are accompanied by an instructor who is trained to deal with situations that may arise..anyway...I am not in the position to argue with you down to the fact that I didnt start diving till i was 15!

Anyway, whats this everyone talking about children going thro the "teen" years.....Hhhh..Hummmm.....just incase anyone didnt know...I'm eighTEEN! hehe x