Drowning Doesn't Look Like Drowning

[dmaziuk]

I tried that maneuver in my rescue class, and instead of getting behind the panicked diver, he "somehow" kept turning in the water and faced me the whole time while I exhausted myself trying to get behind him .. something to think about is waiting until you can approach safely

You have to approach underwater where they can't see you (and turn to face you).

 

[Bowers]

I tried that maneuver in my rescue class, and instead of getting behind the panicked diver, he "somehow" kept turning in the water and faced me the whole time while I exhausted myself trying to get behind him .. something to think about is waiting until you can approach safely

Safety first for sure. Something to consider is putting in your reg and going down. When you come from under them it’s easy to get behind them because a struggling victim is looking for something to climb out of the water on, not keeping track of a diver underwater.

 

[D_B]

dmaziuk @ Bowers ....​

That is exactly what I tried, I was thinking the same thing ... but the instructor was making it more difficult

 

[KenGordon]

https://www.bsac.com/document/bsac-incident-report-2020/2bsac-diving-incident-report-2020.pdf

incident 20/008 - shallow water blackout, apparently quite common, see also How It Happens — Shallow Water Blackout Prevention

 

[boulderjohn]

dmaziuk @ Bowers ....​

That is exactly what I tried, I was thinking the same thing ... but the instructor was making it more difficult

In all performance instruction, the instructor's goal is to make practice as "gamelike" as possible. That was hammered into my head when getting certified to coach two different sports by national organizations. If you have students practice skills differently from the way it happens in a real setting, you are harming their performance.

You will see it in a typical youth soccer practice, when the coach has two players stand still facing each other, passing a ball back and forth. Almost everything about that is wrong. The more they do that, the more they learn to stand still and wait for the ball to come to them, keep their eyes on the ball rather than looking around to see how play is developing around them, and stop the ball dead at their feet rather than touch it to space or to another teammate. Small sided keep away games are far better for teaching passing and receiving skills.

If you are doing what you are supposed to do by going below the panicked diver and then coming up behind that diver, and if when you do that the instructor watches you and turns to face you, the instructor is punishing you for doing the right thing, all in the name of making it harder. Making it hader does not make it better because it is teaching you NOT to do exactly what you are supposed to do.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

https://www.bsac.com/document/bsac-incident-report-2020/2bsac-diving-incident-report-2020.pdf

incident 20/008 - shallow water blackout, apparently quite common, see also How It Happens — Shallow Water Blackout Prevention

I am a shallow water blackout survivor, from a swimming underwater incident while on my high school swim team in 1963. I became a diving instruction, and wrote about shallow water blackout too, having researched the diving literature for a number of years. Below is my writeup on shallow water blackout, and the two mechanisms which produce it. I describe my incident in this writeup, and prevention too. Here's my description of the two different mechanisms (from the below paper):

This can happen in two ways. One is on a shallow dive, when the diver experiences the urge to breath and, with the lowered percentage of CO2 from hyperventilation, stays underwater until he blacks out (represented in Graph I). The other way happens on deeper dives, those deeper than 33 feet (10 meters). This is taravana, the feared disease of the South Seas. The diver hyperventilates, as before, then dives deep. As (s)he dives the pressure increases, and the partial pressure of oxygen also increases. The diver pushes himself to stay somewhat longer than he normally would, and is finally forced to the surface. As he does, the pressure decreases and the partial pressure of oxygen also decreases in the lungs. But the partial pressure of oxygen in the blood remains high, since it is almost a closed system. However at the lungs, oxygen, because of the higher partial pressure in the blood, passes back into the lungs and is lost for metabolic purposes. Couple this to another phenomena, than the body has a higher tolerance to higher percentages of CO2 when exercising which allows the diver to stay down even longer before the urge to breath is felt, and the result is catastrophic: acute hypoxia and unconsciousness. Brain damage is imminent if the diver isn’t resuscitated immediately because the brain is already depleted of oxygen. This condition is depicted in Graph II.

A while ago I became very concerned about training for U.S. AIr Force Parerescuemen, as in the pool the airmen were regularly in underwater drills, and some went onto SWB and had to be pulled out. I was concerned enough to put together an e-mail, and sent it to the Pararescue headquarters, but I did not receive a response. I've included the text of that below also.

Finally, here is a paper from PubMed about Shallow Water Blackout:

Fatal and nonfatal drowning outcomes related to dangerous underwater breath-holding behaviors - New York State, 1988-2011 - PubMed

Drowning is an important cause of preventable injury and mortality, ranking fifth among leading causes of unintentional injury death in the United States. In 2011, two healthy young men died in a drowning incident at a New York City (NYC)-regulated swimming facility. The men became unconscious...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

SeaRat

 

[Waterwulf]

I was ten years old and snorkeling off of Treasure Island Florida....ok ok ok I was "riding the rip current" but I knew how to do it and it was perfectly safe. I'd head for shore when I saw the bridge and walk back up the beach and do it over again three of four times. I was pretty far offshore and really flying along on the current when I saw them: Legs! Two of them with a pink bathing suit thingy on top! I stuck my head up out of the water and saw a crying little girl with little pink matching floaties on.

She saw me..black mask and black shorty wetsuit and started howling and bellowing for real! Even at ten years old, I knew a panicked person could drown a rescuer..even if that person was three years old! I dove down and came up behind her, then just wrapped an arm around her and laid on my back with her pinned on my chest. She calmed right down so I took off paddling for shore on my back with her riding on my chest. She seemed to be having fun!

I came across her drowning Father about halfway to shore. That tourist (White ones got here this morning, red ones got here yesterday!) was throwing more water in the air than he was pushing behind him. He was starting to cough. I figured he had about five seconds left before he started trying to breath water so I stopped and let him hand onto me for a while. I didn't use weights for rip riding so with my shorty wetsuit, I was floating like a cork.

Then I continued for shore on my back paddling for all three of us with the girl on my chest and the man hanging onto my hand. We were met at the surf line by a crying woman and a couple of Life Guards. The two Life Guards were congratulating me "Hey, you brought in a TwoFer" and shaking my hand, the little girl waved at me as her father staggered off with her without even saying thanks and my Mom saw the whole thing and busted me again for riding the rip currents.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I was ten years old and snorkeling off of Treasure Island Florida....ok ok ok I was "riding the rip current" but I knew how to do it and it was perfectly safe. I'd head for shore when I saw the bridge and walk back up the beach and do it over again three of four times. I was pretty far offshore and really flying along on the current when I saw them: Legs! Two of them with a pink bathing suit thingy on top! I stuck my head up out of the water and saw a crying little girl with little pink matching floaties on.

She saw me..black mask and black shorty wetsuit and started howling and bellowing for real! Even at ten years old, I knew a panicked person could drown a rescuer..even if that person was three years old! I dove down and came up behind her, then just wrapped an arm around her and laid on my back with her pinned on my chest. She calmed right down so I took off paddling for shore on my back with her riding on my chest. She seemed to be having fun!

I came across her drowning Father about halfway to shore. That tourist (White ones got here this morning, red ones got here yesterday!) was throwing more water in the air than he was pushing behind him. He was starting to cough. I figured he had about five seconds left before he started trying to breath water so I stopped and let him hand onto me for a while. I didn't use weights for rip riding so with my shorty wetsuit, I was floating like a cork.

Then I continued for shore on my back paddling for all three of us with the girl on my chest and the man hanging onto my hand. We were met at the surf line by a crying woman and a couple of Life Guards. The two Life Guards were congratulating me "Hey, you brought in a TwoFer" and shaking my hand, the little girl waved at me as her father staggered off with her without even saying thanks and my Mom saw the whole thing and busted me again for riding the rip currents.

Waterwulf,

I love stories like this. Congratulations on two in one successful rescues. I have a saying that “Nobody dies while I’m in the water.” Your fun with the rip shows that you well knew how to handle the rip, and that saved two lives. Thank you for becoming involved!

SeaRat

 

[Waterwulf]

A few years after that incident, I was on a dive with a dive club in Southern Germany that was contracted with the city to search for dropped boat motors, dumped weapons, dead bodies, etc. On that particular dive, we were looking for a drowned kid. I say "kid" but I was only about fourteen years old myself. It was in a river and the current was pretty bad. It reminded me of that little girl and her father in the rip current.

That little girl that day wasn't in any immediate danger of drowning unless she took her floaties off. Her problem was that she was getting dragged by the rip current headed for the pass between the Gulf and the Bay. Tide was going in. (That's the best time to ride the rip!) If she had gotten sucked into Johns Pass, her life expectancy would have been about a minute before she got whacked by a boat. I was already heading in towards shore when I found her because I stayed away from that Pass! All I really did for her, was give her a ride in.

Her Father was the one I saved from drowning that day. Years later in some Tech Class, we learned the very first signs of drowning. I recognized most of them from his face that day. His was starting out to be a textbook exhaustion type drowning. He wore himself out chasing her instead of running ahead of the rip current and jumping in the water to meet her.

I was ten years old but even then I knew he wasn't doing so good. I saw him on one of my twisty turns to see behind me because I was paddling on my back. He had stopped swimming and was trying to tread water but had started coughing. He was sure happy to see us! I think maybe he had spotted me earlier headed in his kids direction before I even saw her and thought I was a shark because I heard some man shouting something about a shark. (Silly tourists! There's Porpoises all over the place!)

I let him hang on to me until he had caught his breath and visited with his little girl but I was ready to dump him if he tried to climb on top of us. I had turned it into a game with her to hold her breath. She was laying on her back on my chest so we could both see the rollers coming. They were pretty small that day but enough to wash over us so I would tell her to hold her breath and she would until it passed. I figured if he freaked out, I would just tell her to hold her breath and then just let him push us under. Then I'd just swim away from him. I had a little emergency CO2 cartridge inflated life ring thingy that my Mom made me carry when I was snorkeling or diving that I would have given to him but he was fine. He was to exhausted to say thanks and the woman was just happy to have them both back but the little girl waved at me so that was enough.

I got in trouble twice that day. Once for riding the rip after my Mom told me not to. "You're not a real diver! You're not certified! You're only ten years old! That rip thing is dangerous! You saw what almost happened to those people if you hadn't saved them? And good job." The second time was from the Lifeguards after they finished congratulating me. "How many times we gotta tell ya? Stay out of the rip currents. You may be the worlds youngest certified deep water diver but stay outa the rips!" The dive shops and the local dive community all thought I was certified and sold me air. Only my Mom knew the truth! And yes. I went back to "Ride the Rips" many more times there and elsewhere.

 

[Dan]

A few years after that incident, I was on a dive with a dive club in Southern Germany that was contracted with the city to search for dropped boat motors, dumped weapons, dead bodies, etc. On that particular dive, we were looking for a drowned kid. I say "kid" but I was only about fourteen years old myself. It was in a river and the current was pretty bad. It reminded me of that little girl and her father in the rip current.

That little girl that day wasn't in any immediate danger of drowning unless she took her floaties off. Her problem was that she was getting dragged by the rip current headed for the pass between the Gulf and the Bay. Tide was going in. (That's the best time to ride the rip!) If she had gotten sucked into Johns Pass, her life expectancy would have been about a minute before she got whacked by a boat. I was already heading in towards shore when I found her because I stayed away from that Pass! All I really did for her, was give her a ride in.

Her Father was the one I saved from drowning that day. Years later in some Tech Class, we learned the very first signs of drowning. I recognized most of them from his face that day. His was starting out to be a textbook exhaustion type drowning. He wore himself out chasing her instead of running ahead of the rip current and jumping in the water to meet her.

I was ten years old but even then I knew he wasn't doing so good. I saw him on one of my twisty turns to see behind me because I was paddling on my back. He had stopped swimming and was trying to tread water but had started coughing. He was sure happy to see us! I think maybe he had spotted me earlier headed in his kids direction before I even saw her and thought I was a shark because I heard some man shouting something about a shark. (Silly tourists! There's Porpoises all over the place!)

I let him hang on to me until he had caught his breath and visited with his little girl but I was ready to dump him if he tried to climb on top of us. I had turned it into a game with her to hold her breath. She was laying on her back on my chest so we could both see the rollers coming. They were pretty small that day but enough to wash over us so I would tell her to hold her breath and she would until it passed. I figured if he freaked out, I would just tell her to hold her breath and then just let him push us under. Then I'd just swim away from him. I had a little emergency CO2 cartridge inflated life ring thingy that my Mom made me carry when I was snorkeling or diving that I would have given to him but he was fine. He was to exhausted to say thanks and the woman was just happy to have them both back but the little girl waved at me so that was enough.

I got in trouble twice that day. Once for riding the rip after my Mom told me not to. "You're not a real diver! You're not certified! You're only ten years old! That rip thing is dangerous! You saw what almost happened to those people if you hadn't saved them? And good job." The second time was from the Lifeguards after they finished congratulating me. "How many times we gotta tell ya? Stay out of the rip currents. You may be the worlds youngest certified deep water diver but stay outa the rips!" The dive shops and the local dive community all thought I was certified and sold me air. Only my Mom knew the truth! And yes. I went back to "Ride the Rips" many more times there and elsewhere.

Big Kudos to you for saving 2 lifes at the age of 10