Unfortunately, more than a few of them displayed the attitude that as DIR divers, they were far, far, far superior to the rest of the world's divers, who were all essentially scum who were going to die eventually because of the errors of their ways. This caused tremendous friction in the diving community and more than a little anger. There was actually an individual who was very active on ScubaBoard (until he was banned) who was assigned the task of leading the transmission of the DIR message to the rest of the diving community. One of his essays on the topic can still be found online if you look hard enough. In it he exhorts the faithful to take advantage of their opportunities when forced (Seriously. Forced.) to dive with non-believers to spread the message of the superiority of the DIR gear and methods.
Maybe I haven't been around long enough to have experienced that, but the level of courtesy and respect I have received from every single GUE, UTD, and ISE diver with whom I've met or had correspondence, has been respectful and courteous. I can't say that for the other agencies. Too much squabbling and drama like this. I'm just there for the skills. I'll still dive solo. I'll still dive sidemount. I'm not going to dive 32% nitrox for depths up to 100 feet all the time. I'm not going to start using trimix at depths greater than 100 feet. So I'm not with the program 100%. As I was told by a GUE diver before I took fundies "You don't have to drink the Kool-Aid, focus on the skills." And that's precisely what I do. "
who were all essentially scum..." Shaking my head at that statement. Just over the top.
My responses to the OP are based upon my experiences, as I've trained with PADI, SSI, NAUI, TDI and GUE. I plan on adding more agencies to that list. But for the recreational courses, here is a question for you.
What course can I take where in order I would have to meet similar performance requirements as in a GUE/UTD/ISE fundies/essentials/basics course?
That I would really like to know. Because if there is a PADI course, I want to take it and learn how to teach it well. And I'd like to not have to hire GUE instructors for post fundies remedial training. I can back kick for example, but not in good trim. Not like in their videos. Doing the controlled, slow ascents with a DSMB on a spool is the other thing I need to work on.
I'm listening.
It is now relatively rare to find the zealous DIR advocate putting everyone else down for their inferiority, but it clearly still happens, and it still generates anger when it is directed at people who recognize and remember the insults. My own early technical training was absolutely pure DIR, but even then I did all I could to avoid getting into situations in which I insulted the many fine divers and instructors from other agencies.
I am not sure if you are inferring me as a zealous DIR advocate putting everyone down. If my comments generate anger in you, that is your issue, not mine. Here's the thing that I don't think you are getting about what I have conveyed to people (going beyond this thread here). GUE/UTD/ISE isn't for everyone. The OP has expressed (in my interpretation) that she wants to acquire advanced diving skills. Most people I wouldn't say to jump into these (sorry for using the term, but to me DIR mostly means strict performance requirements) agencies. Most should start in a recreational agency. But I believe the OP is an exception. The OP has looked at the content on the GUE tv website and (my interpretation), wants skills at that level (my interpretation).
Do you believe that she will get that through a
typical OW/AOW program? I don't. When I teach AOW, I tell the students that I have very strict interpretation of the PPB (the first adventure dive). People don't get it in their first attempt. I tell prospective students that I'm not for everyone. I can justify to PADI my interpretations if there was ever a complaint (there hasn't). But that is why I am upfront. I won't just take anyone, as the people I take have to be willing to work hard. Because to me, advanced means advanced, not basics II. Someone just wants the cert. Plenty of other instructors in the area for them. No need to take me. I've made promises to most of the boat captains in the Puget Sound area that if they get an AOW certified diver from me, that they don't have to worry about them. As AOW certification is not respected around here. But GUE fundies is. That's reality. I don't like it. The only thing I can control is what I do as an instructor.
Here is the high school equivalent of this statement: "People who finish calculus know a lot more about math than the people who finish Algebra II." In its earliest days, GUE taught pretty much nothing but cave diving, which is among the most challenging levels of dive training. In that training, GUE felt most of the students did not have the skills they needed when they started, so they created Fundamentals to prepare students (who were already pretty advanced) for the rigors of cave diving. Advanced Open Water (AOW) was created in the mid 1960s by the Los Angeles County dive instruction program (and then picked up by NAUI) as a way to extend the skills of brand new divers and (mostly) to introduce them to different kinds of diving in the hope they would spark enough interest to keep diving. (The diver dropout rate then was huge.)
Don't care about the past. Just care about the current situation.
Anyone who finishes an introductory level technical diving class with any agency will have more skills than someone who completes an AOW class with that same agency.
GUE fundies, UTD Essentials, ISE Basics are NOT introductory technical diving classes. They are recreational skills courses first to ensure that the divers who go the tech route have the skills necessary, so that they are just taught technical skills, not basic diving skills. But they are not introductory tech courses. That statement is false.
Before I took GUE fundies, I have taken two introductory tech courses with two different tech agencies (which have a corresponding rec program). My skills didn't improve as they were already "good enough" going in. No class has improved my skills greater than GUE fundies. That is why it is the #1 skills class I recommend to people to take at some point. In fact, GUE fundies is fixing a lot of bad habits that I acquired in my years of diving with a number of agencies. Today, I'm a PADI IDC Staff Instructor. My IDC and IE were on the knees. I scored a lot of 5's in my IE. Fortunately, there is a movement for everything to be done off the knees, but they are not there yet.
Every GUE instructor I know is also a PADI instructor and teaches for both programs.
In Seattle, none of the GUE instructors teach for any other agency.
They have a hard time trying to remember in each class whether they are supposed to be godlike or incompetent.
Seriously? John, I'd like to tell you to calm down, but I know that doesn't work. My comments have hit a sore spot with you, but that is your issue not mine. You could easily have started a conversation with me to discuss. But since you didn't, neither did I. And here we are.
You do you. I'll do me. Have a nice day.
