Question for PADI Divemasters and Instructors

[tbeck3579]

I have educated tbeck on the She-P!

LOL, yes you have, and I thank you.

 

[boulderjohn]

Since you seem pretty keen on acquiring good diving skills, why not just go the GUE/UTD/ISE route?

If you start the DIR route, you won't want to go through a non-DIR agency, u

Since you are not even certified yet, you no doubt are not aware of the history of the term DIR. It means "Doing it Right," and it was the mantra of a set of divers for quite a few years. This group believed in standardization and had a very set way of doing everything, including the gear they wore, the way they wore it, and the procedures they used in diving. Unfortunately, more than a few of them displayed the attitude that as DIR divers, they were far, far, far superior to the rest of the world's divers, who were all essentially scum who were going to die eventually because of the errors of their ways. This caused tremendous friction in the diving community and more than a little anger. There was actually an individual who was very active on ScubaBoard (until he was banned) who was assigned the task of leading the transmission of the DIR message to the rest of the diving community. One of his essays on the topic can still be found online if you look hard enough. In it he exhorts the faithful to take advantage of their opportunities when forced (Seriously. Forced.) to dive with non-believers to spread the message of the superiority of the DIR gear and methods.

The aforementioned friction was eventually seen as being detrimental to the world of diving. GUE has dropped the term completely for that reason, although UTD still embraces it. It is now relatively rare to find the zealous DIR advocate putting everyone else down for their inferiority, but it clearly still happens, and it still generates anger when it is directed at people who recognize and remember the insults. My own early technical training was absolutely pure DIR, but even then I did all I could to avoid getting into situations in which I insulted the many fine divers and instructors from other agencies.

If you take GUE fundies / UTD essentials, you will have better dive skills than any recently certified AOW diver of any rec agency.

Here is the high school equivalent of this statement: "People who finish calculus know a lot more about math than the people who finish Algebra II." In its earliest days, GUE taught pretty much nothing but cave diving, which is among the most challenging levels of dive training. In that training, GUE felt most of the students did not have the skills they needed when they started, so they created Fundamentals to prepare students (who were already pretty advanced) for the rigors of cave diving. Advanced Open Water (AOW) was created in the mid 1960s by the Los Angeles County dive instruction program (and then picked up by NAUI) as a way to extend the skills of brand new divers and (mostly) to introduce them to different kinds of diving in the hope they would spark enough interest to keep diving. (The diver dropout rate then was huge.)

Anyone who finishes an introductory level technical diving class with any agency will have more skills than someone who completes an AOW class with that same agency.

There are 2 different GUE instructors in LA and both are also certified to teach PADI so I believe the PADI cert wouldn't be a problem -- but I'm not positive.

Every GUE instructor I know is also a PADI instructor and teaches for both programs. They have a hard time trying to remember in each class whether they are supposed to be godlike or incompetent.

 

[KevinNM]

That's not universal. Meredith is, as far as I know, only certified as an instructor for GUE.

 

[EricTheDood]

I'm just wondering how do I find good instruction? When I want to find a good educator in higher education, or a good doctor, I can ask to see their CV (curriculum vitae). It is a professional resume, of sorts, that lists everything they have done to get where they are.

Yes, thank you for informing us of what a CV is.

You're overthinking this. Get certified and take it from there. Not saying an instructor's credentials aren't important, but diving, and especially dive instruction, is a social activity and there needs to be a personality fit. Don't ignore the importance of being able to freely talk to the instructor.

And once you're certified, the rate of your progression as a diver will depend heavily on your means (free time and money) to get out there and dive. Instruction will only take you so far.

 

[tbeck3579]

Since you are not even certified yet, you no doubt are not aware of the history of the term DIR. It means "Doing it Right," and it was the mantra of a set of divers for quite a few years. This group believed in standardization and had a very set way of doing everything, including the gear they wore, the way they wore it, and the procedures they used in diving. Unfortunately, more than a few of them displayed the attitude that as DIR divers, they were far, far, far superior to the rest of the world's divers, who were all essentially scum who were going to die eventually because of the errors of their ways. This caused tremendous friction in the diving community and more than a little anger. There was actually an individual who was very active on ScubaBoard (until he was banned) who was assigned the task of leading the transmission of the DIR message to the rest of the diving community. One of his essays on the topic can still be found online if you look hard enough. In it he exhorts the faithful to take advantage of their opportunities when forced (Seriously. Forced.) to dive with non-believers to spread the message of the superiority of the DIR gear and methods.

The aforementioned friction was eventually seen as being detrimental to the world of diving. GUE has dropped the term completely for that reason, although UTD still embraces it. It is now relatively rare to find the zealous DIR advocate putting everyone else down for their inferiority, but it clearly still happens, and it still generates anger when it is directed at people who recognize and remember the insults. My own early technical training was absolutely pure DIR, but even then I did all I could to avoid getting into situations in which I insulted the many fine divers and instructors from other agencies.

Here is the high school equivalent of this statement: "People who finish calculus know a lot more about math than the people who finish Algebra II." In its earliest days, GUE taught pretty much nothing but cave diving, which is among the most challenging levels of dive training. In that training, GUE felt most of the students did not have the skills they needed when they started, so they created Fundamentals to prepare students (who were already pretty advanced) for the rigors of cave diving. Advanced Open Water (AOW) was created in the mid 1960s by the Los Angeles County dive instruction program (and then picked up by NAUI) as a way to extend the skills of brand new divers and (mostly) to introduce them to different kinds of diving in the hope they would spark enough interest to keep diving. (The diver dropout rate then was huge.)

Anyone who finishes an introductory level technical diving class with any agency will have more skills than someone who completes an AOW class with that same agency.

Every GUE instructor I know is also a PADI instructor and teaches for both programs. They have a hard time trying to remember in each class whether they are supposed to be godlike or incompetent.

I've been considering so many different things and trying to decide the best approach for me. It's wonderful that there are so many choices -- I didn't know that till I came here -- Thank you !!!! I like an instructor who can teach a "hybrid" class. It suggests they have an open mind, they respect freedom of choice, and they respect safety regardless of which cert you choose. I like PADI -- at least I like the way it should be taught, but that is hit or miss. I like an instructor who is highly trained in many different methods and is able to combine two or more approaches to tailor the class for fun and safety.

Yes, thank you for informing us of what a CV is.

You're overthinking this. Get certified and take it from there. Not saying an instructor's credentials aren't important, but diving, and especially dive instruction, is a social activity and there needs to be a personality fit. Don't ignore the importance of being able to freely talk to the instructor.

And once you're certified, the rate of your progression as a diver will depend heavily on your means (free time and money) to get out there and dive. Instruction will only take you so far.

I've been considering so many different things and trying to decide the best approach for me. It's wonderful that there are so many choices -- I didn't know that till I came here -- Thank you to everyone -- sincerely from the bottom of my heart!!!! I like an instructor who can teach a "hybrid" class. It suggests they have an open mind, they respect freedom of choice, and they respect safety regardless of which cert you choose. I like PADI -- at least I like the way it should be taught, but that is hit or miss. I like an instructor who is highly trained in many different methods and is able to combine two or more approaches to tailor the class for fun and safety.

 

[tbeck3579]

You're overthinking this.

Any instructor who would tell me that is someone I would pass by. That's like saying "don't worry your pretty little head darlin'". Thanks, but not thanks

 

[Doby45]

Any instructor who would tell me that is someone I would pass by. That's like saying "don't worry your pretty little head darlin'". Thanks, but not thanks

Actually, your "don't worry your pretty little head darlin" reeks of sexual overtones. That was not stated or implied by @EricTheDood, he simply stated that you are over thinking this and you are. You are over thinking this, be you are a male or a female, makes no difference. How about you just get certified first and as you have stated PADI and GUE both of which are available to you where you are just pick one, get certified and see if this is something you will even be doing in a year.

 

[tbeck3579]

Actually, your "don't worry your pretty little head darlin" reeks of sexual overtones. That was not stated or implied by @EricTheDood, he simply stated that you are over thinking this and you are. You are over thinking this, be you are a male or a female, makes no difference. How about you just get certified first and as you have stated PADI and GUE both of which are available to you where you are just pick one, get certified and see if this is something you will even be doing in a year.

Excuse me, but that is your interpretation. Please don't lay your biases on my shoulders. They are yours, please keep them. I have enough of my own.

 

[BreeAbyss]

You are definitely over thinking this! Not the same thing as telling you not to worry, because it's a good thing to put thought into your training. I'm pretty sure what people are meaning is that you are making things way more complicated than they need to be. Find an instructor you get along with who doesn't look to be a total knob. I personally think that an instructor's CV becomes more important the more you advance in your training. Like for tech diving you probably want to be pickier, I know I am.
My husband got certified on vacation in a big group of people, I wasn't there so maybe his instructor was excellent, but it was on a whim and he didn't put much thought into skill etc and now he's a good and competent diver because of practice and good mentors!
I have a tendency to overthink things too and sometimes it gets in the way of progress and making decisions...so I try really hard to get past it. I think that people don't want you to get into that trap

 

[tbeck3579]

I've only done one tropical dive week (Panama) and the tanks were included each day on the boat. When we snowbird there is a shop in FL and one in Miss. where I give them like $20 extra above the rental fee and they let me treat two of their tanks as my own for 3 months (ei., no returning them within 24 hours). Generally, tank rentals in Can. & US are about $2 more than an Air fill.

Thank you. I'm sorry I missed your post. I keep double checking the threads because I am missing posts. I click on the "alert" and I believe it takes beyond some posts so I miss them. Still getting used to the best way to navigate threads.