Question about octopus for long-time divers

[Epinephelus]

James connell once bubbled...
i've found that not having an octo on my rig is a detrement to being paired up with a diver. i dive solo almost exclusivly and don't want a buddy,

Now there's a good thing...
E.

 

[Epinephelus]

James connell once bubbled...
all airIIs would be best on the bottom of the marianas trench.

Care to back that one up with a little data James?
E.

 

[Diver0001]

Squid once bubbled...


Interesting thread. I keep an open mind to DIR principles, but I remain hesitant to put any kind of rope or bungee around my neck. I fear that it could have the potential of becoming a noose in an adverse situation.

Ok. You have a point. I'm not DIR but I do use a long hose and bungee setup and I think it's one of the strongest points of the system.

Where is YOUR octopus?
To start with I think that a diver should always-always-always know exactly where his alternate is. I'm sure you can think of all kinds of compelling reasons for this. If you agree then there are only two systems that guarantee it (assuming single tank): the AIR II type solution and bungee octo. Given the choice between the two (I dove with an AIR II for years before going to the bungee system so I *do* actually know what I'm talking about), the bungeed octo is a much easier and much "cleaner" solution to deal with when the excrement is flying. This comes partly from the natural location of the reg, the fact that it's a normal reg, the fact that it won't be dragging in the sand, the fact that your buddy when he needs it gets the reg he will probably "take" anyway, the fact that you can reach your alternate no matter what's happening and the fact that you can use your inflator normally in what is bound to already be a stressful situation.

NOOSE
It's hard, although not impossible to imagine a situation whereby the bungee becomes hoplessly entangled. If it does, however, it will not become a "noose". A noose, by definition, keeps getting tighter and thighter until it breaks your neck or cuts off your air supply. A bungee has a lot of give to it and getting it to act like a noose, even in the highly unlikely event of a bad entanglement is next to impossible and amost certainly much less likely than having a major problem with a "normal" octopus and not being able to find it when you need it.

how thick is too thick?
If you use a bungee like 1/2cm or more then it's too thick and won't give enough. However, bungees can also be 2-3mm or so thick and they stretch a lot. These ones are better for a couple of reasons if you ask me, not the least of which is that it's easy to grab the octopus and pull it away from your face to look at it. (don't let go or your buddy will pee himself laughing.....)

Hopeless entanglement
And finally in the highly unlikely event that it were to become entangled to the extent that you can't slip it over your head or get out of it any other way then as a last resort you can still just take you knife, pull the octo away from your throat and cut the bungee.

R..

 

[Genesis]

The way I rig mine, under the clamp, if I give it a REAL STRONG pull (or hang it up on something!) the bungee comes loose from under the clamp, releasing it.

It is thus impossible for me to "hang" myself with my octo

 

[pipedope]

Damn, Hungup ....
s**t
arrrgghh
Let me see.
Pull octo from bungie
Cut throat with knife.

Hmmm
Why is the water turning green
I can't see so good
...

bye world



Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Hallmac]

ppilot once bubbled...
I swear that way back when I learned to dive and used a standard octopus, it was standard to mount the thing on the left. I think I even remember we had to specifically practice breathing out of it because it was upside down. Am I imagining this? If not, was it ever standard, or just something my instructor did? If it was standard, when and why did it change? This was in the late eighties and the agency was NASDS.

Anyway, I'm pretty curious about this. Thanks for your help!

You are correct that NASDS used to teach it this way. In fact I still do! The long hose is attached to the Left with the Bc hose. The primary second stage, guage/computer, and dry suit hose are on the right. To breath the safe second You do not need to stand on your head or breath it up side down. Just make sure the hose loops around the front of you and breath the reg normally. there are reasons for the hose routing just like everything else taught. with the proper routing and hose lenght everything is quick to deploy, easy to manage, tucked in neatly and available.

I would be happy to answer any questions if you like.

Hallmac

 

[James connell]

Epinephelus once bubbled...

Care to back that one up with a little data James?
E.

What's one of the most common equipment failures ? stuck inflater.
now do you want to continue a dive with that hose off and an air2?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

James connell once bubbled...


What's one of the most common equipment failures ? stuck inflater.
now do you want to continue a dive with that hose off and an air2?

You have a point there. Well not really...what you have is an error in your logic.

My son had a stuck inflator at about 65 ft. on his first dive after getting certified. Upon inspection of the near new inflator it was apparent that the inflate button on his inflator had lost its top as well as the return spring. So when the "button" (actually just the remaining stem) went in, it did not come back out.

From this one could decide that an Air 2 would have been REALLY bad to have in this situation. After all, if the most common equipment failure is a stuck inflator that you have to disconnect, then having an Air 2 is something to be avoided because in this case my son would have had to disconnect his Air 2 and lost his alternate second stage as well.

However, my action to prevent future problems was to get rid of the inflator (a pretty common generic inflator found on a lot of BC's) and replace it with an Air 2 (actually a Tusa Duo Air - but same thing).

The problem with so many stuck inflators is not that ALL inflators are subject to high rates of failure but rather that a lot of the inflators out there are cheap and don't belong on your BC in the first place.

But the fact is that an Air 2 would not have failed in that manner in the first place. And switching to an Air 2 will provide you with a higher quality and more reliable inflator than what many people are diving with now (as they ridicule the strokes using Air 2's).

Even assuming my son had had an Air 2 and had it stuck in inflation mode, it would have not been a big deal as my son would have still had his primary second stage. If we had been in an OOA situation and had I been breathing off his primary at the time, I suppose it could be considered a problem, but it still really would not have been as we still could have buddy breathed.

But the odds of all that happening to add up to a problem at the same time are pretty remote. The odds are a lot greater that you will encounter a situation where the conventional octo is unusable as it is full of sand, rocks, sea weed, or just been neglected for so long it does not work properly. I tend to check other people's equipment when they dive on my boat, and I find one or two per season that won't give air, or give inadequate air even when the purge is fully depressed. Opening them up for a look is usually pretty interesting. There is a lot to be said for the self flushing features of an Air 2.

 

[Diver0001]

Genesis once bubbled...
The way I rig mine, under the clamp, if I give it a REAL STRONG pull (or hang it up on something!) the bungee comes loose from under the clamp, releasing it.

It is thus impossible for me to "hang" myself with my octo

you're also likely to pull the mouthpiece off like this but it's definitetly an option if you're really stuck.

R..

 

[japan-diver]

Here in Japan almost all divers who have an octo (still quite a few who don't ) run it off the left side.

I personally run a long hose and bungied octo. Althought the surgical tubing I use will break before choking me I have had it pleasure of my buddy snapping the tubing on the back of my neck a few times.