Question about octopus for long-time divers

[Diver0001]

James connell once bubbled...
i stopped use one completely - if you run out of air and can't buddy breath TOUGH swim for it.

Well....I certainly wouldn't recommend this. It's a small effort to add an octopus to your gear and even an AIR II is better than nothing if you're worried about clutter. To me scuba kit isn't complete without an octopus and I would be very reluctant to buddy with someone who didn't have one even if they were very experienced.

You *do* realise that other things can happen to a regulator than running out of air, right? For example, I've had one stop functioning because of sand that was caked on the inside of the housing. It was a rental reg and the problem didn't show up until I was 60ft under water. I've also had a reg "malfunction" due to the mouthpiece falling off. The tie-wrap was broken and I didn't notice it in the pre-dive check. I've also seen debris get caught in the exahust valve and hold the valve open. In all of these cases the problem was very minor. I briefly switched to my octo, sorted out the problem and switched back. In two of these cases my buddy wasn't even aware of it. If I had needed to run to my buddy and try solving these problems while buddy breathing it would have been much harder.

R..

 

[James connell]

Diver0001 once bubbled...


Well....I certainly wouldn't recommend this. It's a small effort to add an octopus to your gear and even an AIR II is better than nothing if you're worried about clutter. To me scuba kit isn't complete without an octopus and I would be very reluctant to buddy with someone who didn't have one even if they were very experienced.

You *do* realise that other things can happen to a regulator than running out of air, right? For example, I've had one stop functioning because of sand that was caked on the inside of the housing. It was a rental reg and the problem didn't show up until I was 60ft under water. I've also had a reg "malfunction" due to the mouthpiece falling off. The tie-wrap was broken and I didn't notice it in the pre-dive check. I've also seen debris get caught in the exahust valve and hold the valve open. In all of these cases the problem was very minor. I briefly switched to my octo, sorted out the problem and switched back. In two of these cases my buddy wasn't even aware of it. If I had needed to run to my buddy and try solving these problems while buddy breathing it would have been much harder.

R..

all the problems you discribed are Your own fault - did you check out your equipment Before getting in the water?

i don't dive rental stuff.
a wet brteathing reg while annoying is hardly life threatening- push the purge to get a breath.
in the vast majority of cases where a reg fails it isn't going to do any good to have a second second stage - the whole system is comprimized. i didn't say i didn't have a backup - i use a bailout bottle. all airIIs would be best on the bottom of the marianas trench.

 

[Diver0001]

James connell once bubbled...


all the problems you discribed are Your own fault - did you check out your equipment Before getting in the water?

Well you know James, I check my stuff before every dive but once in a while things still happen. I've been diving pretty actively for a long time and I've had the odd thing happen under water. I'm sure my case isn't much different than that of other long-time divers.

The point I was trying to make was that not all problems with your primary regulator causes massive free-flows or OOA. I think having an octopus in such a case is preferable to buddy breathing because it simplifies problem solving when you are not task-loaded with sharing air.

In your previous message you didn't mention that you do carry a backup and suggested that if something happens that you should buddy-breathe or swim for it. It's then not surprising that people would think that this is what you meant and try to point out that there are alternatives.

I noticed in the tone of your posts that you seem to be a little irritated by this discussion. Is there a reason for that?

R..

 

[James connell]

i've found that not having an octo on my rig is a detrement to being paired up with a diver. i dive solo almost exclusivly and don't want a buddy, so air sharing isn't a consideration. i keep the bailout hidden and tell the skipper i don't have an octo - the looks i get are great!

weird stuff does happen - but it happens less if you do your own maintance on all your gear regularly and don't rely on a shopmonkey. some of the guys i've met aren't qualified to screw in a light bulb but they seem to think they can fix regs.

my posting 'style' is the result of dyslexia that makes it very hard for me to type - i hit a lot of keys in reverse order ( "have" often gets written 'ahve' and "it" is 'ti'). i have to edit almost every word, so it's sometimes a little more terse then i'd like.

Diver0001 once bubbled...


Well you know James, I check my stuff before every dive but once in a while things still happen. I've been diving pretty actively for a long time and I've had the odd thing happen under water. I'm sure my case isn't much different than that of other long-time divers.

The point I was trying to make was that not all problems with your primary regulator causes massive free-flows or OOA. I think having an octopus in such a case is preferable to buddy breathing because it simplifies problem solving when you are not task-loaded with sharing air.

In your previous message you didn't mention that you do carry a backup and suggested that if something happens that you should buddy-breathe or swim for it. It's then not surprising that people would think that this is what you meant and try to point out that there are alternatives.

I noticed in the tone of your posts that you seem to be a little irritated by this discussion. Is there a reason for that?

R..

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I started diving before the octopus second stage was invented, when a single-hose regulator was simply that, and the best pressure guage was that little spring-loaded pin on the original Calypso regulator that showed you that you had full, one-half full or one-third full tank when you put the tank on the valve (it couldn't be monitored while diving except by your buddy).

After saying that, one of the first ones I got was using an adaptor. We got power inflation of the BC about the same time, and the BC took the left-handed LP hose position. Usually there was only one right-hand position, and a "+" adaptor put tow more LP outlets on the right side. I used the one going under my arm, and initially let it drag, but then developed my own BC with a pocket for the "safe second" stage. I used a longer, 36 inch hose on it too, so that it could be used by a diver facing me on a "S" bend and still be right-side up.

I had a similar adapter for my two-hose Trieste regulator, which I still use. The left side of that regulator is for the BC, and the right side currently is for the octopus. But I just looked at a 1973 photo from Clear Lake, and I have it on my left side. So it probably was not at all standardized at that time. In that photo, I was not wearing a BC either, as power inflation was just starting.

SeaRat

 

[Albion]

James connell once bubbled...


all airIIs would be best on the bottom of the marianas trench.

Has anyone seen an AIRII failure, of any model, i keep asking and get no response so i have to assume it is just rumours. in a commbined 800 dives my G/f and i have only one failure of an 'AIRII" device and that was, i suspect, due to someone dropping something on it. I agree the Scuba pro AirII looks a clunker, i now have a sea quest model which is no bigger than an inflator and the buttons are better location.

Modern regs are pretty reliable so most likely worst case scenario due to a failure would be a free flow (as said before if the first stage fails your screwed anyway). If you did crap out of air or your buddy (or someone else) then you have the AIRII to get you out of trouble. If you are diving in conditons where that is not good enough then get a pony.

 

[neil]

My octo is mounted on the left. It's easier to hand off in a mouthpiece-up position and it makes it easier to face the OOA diver or swim with them without having to kink the hose. If for some strange reason I have to use it myself, I have no problem breathing off an upside down reg.

Albion:
I dove with an AirSource for quite a while and had no problems with it other than it's awkward to use. I don't think the AirII is any more prone to failure than any other reg.

Neil

 

[Squid]

roakey once bubbled...

Excellent, you're half way there! Now dump the Air2, necklace your backup and donate your primary and you'll go the other half of the way...

See:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t10022/s.html

Roak

Interesting thread. I keep an open mind to DIR principles, but I remain hesitant to put any kind of rope or bungee around my neck. I fear that it could have the potential of becoming a noose in an adverse situation.

 

[Lead_carrier]

I've used an AirII for a few hundred dives and it hasn't crapped out on me yet. It is no problem for me because I learned to use it properly and it has worked fine for air sharing the few times I've needed to use it. I also replaced the dump hose with one from Trident that was a lot more flexible.

Part of the time I carry a pony bottle and use an H valve. So I have more regs to go around than I do air. Just try to my primary away from me.:wacko:

 

[Rick Murchison]

Squid once bubbled...
Interesting thread. I keep an open mind to DIR principles, but I remain hesitant to put any kind of rope or bungee around my neck. I fear that it could have the potential of becoming a noose in an adverse situation.

Well, you could have the best of both worlds and use a necklace attached with a breakaway rubber band made from a piece of bicycle innertube. Make it thich enough that it won't break free without substantial effort, but will break free if you're serious about it. You can get the same effect by using surgical tubing under a zip-tie - it won't come loose on its own, but if you have to break it free you can do so easily.
Rick