Pushing the limits? Is it a good idea?

[bowlofpetunias]

Yes the paper means very little IMHO attitude and skill in the water are what count. I know people who could paper their wall (and some almost do) with framed copies of their certifications. Many I wouldn't dive with in a pink fit! All you have to do is look at the stats on dive deaths to see there is too hight a percentage of highly trained divers dying.

Attitude isn't just abut willingness to learn but also not allowing yourself to become complacent in your skills and abilities. Extend yourself in safe increments by all means. My OW instructor repeatedly told us.... "Mother Ocean is a $#&%@ never turn your back on her and NEVER take her for granted or she will GET you" Good advice and remembering it has saved my bacon a few times.

 

[boulderjohn]

but also not allowing yourself to become complacent in your skills and abilities.

Very true. A dive that is within your ability level at one point may be beyond your ability level at another.

I was thinking about that during a recent discussion. In technical dive training, we stress being able to shoot a bag/SMB from depth. Students have to do it a number of times on their training dives, and they have to do it well.

In the conversation I mentioned above, the people with whom I was speaking said they did all their technical diving (and they did it a lot) in the Great lakes. On the boats they dived, shooting a bag is absolutely for emergencies only. The skipper will be very, very unhappy if you do not ascend on the ascent line, which remains connected to both the dive boat and the wreck. These divers have not shot a bag/SMB from depth in years. Where I do most of my deco dives in South Florida, we do some ascents near a line that is disconnected from both boats and drifts along with us, and we do some where we all shoot bags as soon as we leave the wreck so that the dive boat can follow us as we drift in the current. If you fumble shooting the bag (drop the reel, say, or tangle the line and send the reel up with the bag), then you had better either have another bag and reel or you had better stay close to another diver during the ascent, or the boat will have a hard time finding you in the waves.

 

[DevonDiver]

2 Types of divers:

1. Best Case Scenario Divers. Do a few dives at a given level of challenge. Nothing goes wrong. They assume that proves competence. They push swiftly into more challenging dives. Process is repeated. Level of competence is self-assessed from uneventful or routine dives. Perceive their ability based on nothing going wrong.

2. Worst Case Scenario Divers. Do sufficient dives at a given level of challenge to experience a spectrum of problems arising (Murphy's Law). Do not push onto more challenging dives until level of competence is self-assessed from successful mitigation or resolution of real-world problems. Perceive their ability based on dealing with the worst foreseeable problems.

The diver's attitude and mindset.... is what really determines whether 'pushing' limits is safe or foolhardy.....

 

[NAM001]

2 Types of divers:

1. Best Case Scenario Divers. Do a few dives at a given level of challenge. Nothing goes wrong. They assume that proves competence. They push swiftly into more challenging dives. Process is repeated. Level of competence is self-assessed from uneventful or routine dives. Perceive their ability based on nothing going wrong.

2. Worst Case Scenario Divers. Do sufficient dives at a given level of challenge to experience a spectrum of problems arising (Murphy's Law). Do not push onto more challenging dives until level of competence is self-assessed from successful mitigation or resolution of real-world problems. Perceive their ability based on dealing with the worst foreseeable problems.

The diver's attitude and mindset.... is what really determines whether 'pushing' limits is safe or foolhardy.....

Wow ,,,, You said a mouth full. Your very point is why I encourage most divers to get their OW and wait to get their AOW. I like the idea of allowing time to experience either personally or by witnessing a variety of issues divers have in the water. Sure putting a tank on is a piece of cake, but what happens when the tank slips out of the BCD at 80 ft. We have all seen it or done it our selves. A delay on the up line to the boat drives home the point of not waiting till your last 300# to head up. These learning experiences are more valuable than the classroom or controlled cert dives can ever give you. Make your mistakes in the shallows and then move on. Some whre during this learning you begin to be a BUDDY.

 

[Bob DBF]

Make your mistakes in the shallows and then move on.

Your very point is why I encourage most divers to get their OW and wait to get their AOW. I like the idea of allowing time to experience either personally or by witnessing a variety of issues divers have in the water.

Having learned my diving through reading, having mentors, and advancing my skills by pushing limits, I am amazed how fast divers now feel comfortable at 100'. I probably had 40 or 50 dives before I broke 60'. Granted, the vintage gear and self training slowed things down, but I think it is against a divers best interest to be AOW at 100' with 9 total dives, training only, to deal with their first serious problem.

Pushing limits is a good way to expand skills, however it has to be moderated with good judgement. Good judgement limits me to incremental advances, becoming knowledgeable on what I am trying to achieve and how to do it safely, which now includes a lot more reading material, but was more dependent upon a mentor when I was first doing what are now considered technical dives.


Bob

 

[Patoux01]

Wow ,,,, You said a mouth full. Your very point is why I encourage most divers to get their OW and wait to get their AOW. I like the idea of allowing time to experience either personally or by witnessing a variety of issues divers have in the water. Sure putting a tank on is a piece of cake, but what happens when the tank slips out of the BCD at 80 ft. We have all seen it or done it our selves. A delay on the up line to the boat drives home the point of not waiting till your last 300# to head up.

I find it very disturbing people suggest this. Seeing the reliability of gear, this assumes that anyone that dives "by the book" should basically never get to AOW.

 

[NAM001]

I find it very disturbing people suggest this. Seeing the reliability of gear, this assumes that anyone that dives "by the book" should basically never get to AOW.

Not at all: perhaps the previous post by Bob says it better. Too many people move faster than they master skills. Reliability of gear has nothing to do with the divers preparedness for such dives. I only suggest that taking your time advancing allows time to find out that you are not invincible in an unforgiving element.

 

[Bob DBF]

I find it very disturbing people suggest this. Seeing the reliability of gear, this assumes that anyone that dives "by the book" should basically never get to AOW.

If they dive "by the PADI book", you will be a Master SCUBA Diver in 100 dives, a good percentage of which will be under instruction.

The purpose of the OW course is to give the diver the ability to conduct successful buddy dives with another OW diver without supervision. How can new divers really know if they can actually do that if they don't dive. In addition, giving the new diver an increased depth recommendation without any unsupervised experience at his present skill set is giving that diver a false sense of security, IMHO.



Bob

 

[NAM001]

Thanks Bob I thought that DM for padi required Master diver and 60 dives

 

[TMHeimer]

Thanks Bob I thought that DM for padi required Master diver and 60 dives

Master Diver not required for DM, only Rescue. For DM (unless they changed it) is 40 dives to start course, 60 upon completion. Master Diver isn't required for anything PADI offers.