purposes of manifold

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H2Andy:
ok... i've been diving with doubles for a bit now, and
i've been thinking (and thinking) about the advantages
of a manifold

Go with progression (or perhaps evolution).

The monkeys:
Singles give you no inherent redundancy. If you have any catastrophic failure [uncontrollable regulator freeflow, hose burst, burst disk failure, neck o-ring failure, neck failure, valve failure, etc.] your gas will be gone or unavailable to both you and your buddy, depending on the type of failure.

Neanderthal:
Singles with an H valve gives you redundancy to a failure from the first stage down through the second stage, allowing you to shut down the valve that the regulator is on, saving the remaining gas for you to use. The cost is that you've added another valve that can fail and result in all your gas to become unavailable to you and your buddy. Also there is a bigger bouyancy swing from full to empty.

Cro-magnon:
Doubles with a crossover valve adds no inherent redundancy other than to provide you with more gas, which results in more remaining gas should a failure that singles with an H valve gives you redundancy for occur. You also have more gas, therefore more time using the gas before it's drained to get to a gas donation. Since most situations allow you to have an amount under 1/2 of your gas remaining after a failure [depending on isolation speed], the bouyancy swing is less. The added cost is weight, drag and expense as well as adding failure points in the crossbar connections.

Fully Evolved:
Doubles with an isolator gives you useable gas remaining should most any catastropic failure occur, with the exception of a failure of the added isolation valve; as opposed to any failure from the first stage down. In other words, H valves and crossover bars give you insurance for any failure from the 1st stage down. Isolator gives you insurance for any failure barring the isolator valve itself. The added cost is the 3rd valve failure point, as well as the procedural issues coming from potential dangers of unknown gas contents [should one tank have different contents than the other and you isolate the mixing of the two. sidenote... always isolate and analyse both posts should you ever suspect your isolator was closed while filling].

Independant doubles/sidemount removes the isolator valve failure point at the added cost of a second high pressure hose/gauge. It removes the time pressure to isolate in the event of a failure. It removes the risk of gas contents. Sidemount changes your profile to be lower and wider than backmounted doubles, allowing for a wider range of passage access. The added cost is that should you have a failure from the first stage down, the reserved gas in the failed side is unusable. It also adds procedural issues of even consumption between the tanks.

My summary:
For all technical diving situations, I personally feel that nothing but the highest evolution is sufficent. That evolution being to either independant or manifolded doubles [where the risk vs. benefits between the two are debatable as to which is better]. Some people believe that the procedural issues of filling isolator doubles is a risk that outweighs the risks of stepping back to crossbar doubles... although I don't agree with that.
 
H2Andy:
well, it was unlocked to let Spectre post (not by me); i just squeezed right in

(the benefits of being a fast typist)

Feel free to unlock it to see my reply to that post [providing I continue to fight the urge to create a new thread]
 
hey, i didn't initially lock the thread guys ... that was done
by someone else at user's request

i'm too involved in it to make Mod decisions

of note: there were no TOS violations in that thread. everyody
was really civil. i didn't have a prolem with anything
anyone said.
 
H2Andy:
hey, i didn't initially lock the thread guys ... that was done
by someone else at user's request

i'm too involved in it to make Mod decisions

Ehh, doesn't matter anyway. I've long given up on lost causes. Although I read my potential response to my cats, and they were smart enough to understand that yes... I can prove that doubles are safer.
 
Spectre:
I read my response to my cats, and they were smart enough to
understand that yes... I can prove that doubles are safer.


sigh

whatever

if your participation in the thread was gonna lead to this sort of personal
attack, i'm glad it's locked
 
H2Andy:
if your participation in the thread was gonna lead to this sort of personal
attack, i'm glad it's locked

There wouldn't have been any personal attacks if you didn't feel the need to take one last swipe at me, knowing you would be protected from the impending close.
 
hey, if you got to chime in after the thread was closed, and personally attack me,
why not allow me to respond?

i didn't personally attack you.

besides if it bugged you that much, why not copy my response and
start a new thread?

it's not like your hands were tied. the thread wasn't closed for a TOS
violation. no one was asked to stop discussing the subject (it's
a valid subject). no one told you you couldn't speak your mind
(so long as you dont' breach TOS, which you keep doing, btw).

and i certainly didn't moderate you or your attacks either on that
thread or on this one

i haven't so much as touched one of your posts
 
H2Andy:
i didn't personally attack you

slander n. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation

In other words:

"can you prove that diving singles is more dangerous than doubles for the
intro. cave diver?

no.

so.... end of story"

h2andy:
besides if it bugged you that much, why not copy my response and
start a new thread?

Because the reasons for the thread being closed were not given, so I respected that the discussion is over.
 
saying that you can't prove something is not slander. nor is it a personal attack.
you're really stretching for a point here. you need to study the law a bit closer.

the reasons were given:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1616441&postcount=286

http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=1616722&postcount=288

basically, the thread was going around in circles

again, no TOS violations, no request not to start other threads on the subject,
nothing.... that's because the subject is proper under TOS and no one can
really stop you from posting about it... unless, again, you break TOS
 
H2Andy:
the reasons were given:

uuuh.

GDI:
Agreed. I thank you all for your points of view and the civil manner in which they were stated.
I will lock the thread tonight and give those you want one more opportunity to post

reason: A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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