Pulmonary Oedema incident

[Ayisha]

You can watch a video on the DAN website about Medications and Diving, which covers pretty much everything you've mentioned and then some. It's very informative and worth watching at https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/training/seminars/seminars.aspx?danNo=

 

[Sas]

Awesome signature Sas. I guess Adurso hasn't met you in the real world so

Clearly not.

 

[denisegg]

I know how frustrating it is not to be able to find answers as to why it happened. You keep going over and over in your mind the events leading up to, what was different on that particular dive, questioning everything like medicine, exercise, alcohol consumption, fatigue, and one of the best cardiologist in the SE telling you he has run every test he can think of and looking you straight in the face and telling you I can't find anything that caused this to happen to you after he assured me when I was admitted to the hospital that he would find an answer.
With me, it came down to making the decision for myself that no one else could make for me. And that was to at least try it again. And that is what I do now every time I get back into the water. But that is a decision that you will ultimately have to make for yourself. And I pray that it will be the right one for you.

 

[InTheDrink]

I know how frustrating it is not to be able to find answers as to why it happened. You keep going over and over in your mind the events leading up to, what was different on that particular dive, questioning everything like medicine, exercise, alcohol consumption, fatigue, and one of the best cardiologist in the SE telling you he has run every test he can think of and looking you straight in the face and telling you I can't find anything that caused this to happen to you after he assured me when I was admitted to the hospital that he would find an answer.
With me, it came down to making the decision for myself that no one else could make for me. And that was to at least try it again. And that is what I do now every time I get back into the water. But that is a decision that you will ultimately have to make for yourself. And I pray that it will be the right one for you.

I guess it's human nature to want an answer. I'm also an eternal optimist so I believe that I will find the answers and feel like I've got off to a good start. To a degree I need to find some reassurances because IPE isn't confined to diving, it can be onset by swimming too and that, I just cannot accept living without. It frankly seems ridiculous.

I'll get there, just like you did. Thanks for your support over the last while - it's really helped having a dialogue with someone who's felt what it's like. It's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy.

x,
John

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I guess it's human nature to want an answer. I'm also an eternal optimist so I believe that I will find the answers and feel like I've got off to a good start. To a degree I need to find some reassurances because IPE isn't confined to diving, it can be onset by swimming too and that, I just cannot accept living without. It frankly seems ridiculous.

John, based on the scientific data out there, the swimming-induced IPE to which you are referring applies to sustained, strenuous swimming. Have you been told otherwise?

 

[InTheDrink]

John, based on the scientific data out there, the swimming-induced IPE to which you are referring applies to sustained, strenuous swimming. Have you been told otherwise?

One of the doctors I'm working with has had two cases of IPE, one diving, one snokelling. I also read this last week but I can't verify it's accuracy - http://fit2dive.blogspot.com/2011/08/australian-ipe-deaths.html

My understanding - and this could be incorrect - is that it can happen even when not exerting. I could be completely wrong about this so please do not take this as fact.

Thanks,
John

 

[Bubbletrubble]

One of the doctors I'm working with has had two cases of IPE, one diving, one snokelling. I also read this last week but I can't verify it's accuracy - http://fit2dive.blogspot.com/2011/08/australian-ipe-deaths.html

With regard to the blog post by "Phil"...
First of all, interpretation of the 30% recurrence rate is problematic because it's not explained whether patients with an occurrence of IPE continue on with their in-water activities or to what extent they change their behavior. This is the problem with reporting this kind of data as a percentage because you really don't know what the denominator is.

Secondly, the assertion that divers afflicted with IPE "may also experience" IPE while swimming or snorkeling sounds more like a speculative statement than one based on numerous examples of real-world occurrences. When a scientist or clinician uses the word "may" in his statements, it simply means that "the possibility exists."

My understanding - and this could be incorrect - is that it can happen even when not exerting. I could be completely wrong about this so please do not take this as fact.

Rather than take my word for it (or anyone else's for that matter), I would recommend reading the primary literature. Use [URL="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed"]PubMed and the Rubicon Repository.

 

[InTheDrink]

With regard to the blog post by "Phil"...
First of all, interpretation of the 30% recurrence rate is problematic because it's not explained whether patients with an occurrence of IPE continue on with their in-water activities or to what extent they change their behavior. This is the problem with reporting this kind of data as a percentage because you really don't know what the denominator is.

Secondly, the assertion that divers afflicted with IPE "may also experience" IPE while swimming or snorkeling sounds more like a speculative statement than one based on numerous examples of real-world occurrences. When a scientist or clinician uses the word "may" in his statements, it simply means that "the possibility exists."

Rather than take my word for it (or anyone else's for that matter), I would recommend reading the primary literature. Use PubMed and the Rubicon Repository.

In fairness I did put disclaimers around pretty much everything in my post. I know, without context and data it's nearly meaningless although alarming nonetheless. Maybe someone knows who Phil is and can get him to chime in with where he's pulled the data/stats from?

I'll also ask my physician about the IPE patients he treated to see whether he knows whether the snorkeller was exerting. Snorkelling is something I don't normally associate with exertion but this is purely a preconception my part.

I'll check out PubMed and Rubicon and see how I get on with them. Thanks for the links.

J

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@InTheDrink: To clarify, I wasn't even questioning the veracity of the data present in the blog. I was simply pointing out that interpretation of such data can be tricky. How the data was collected and whether the data is "trustworthy" are separate issues entirely.

I'll also ask my physician about the IPE patients he treated to see whether he knows whether the snorkeller was exerting. Snorkelling is something I don't normally associate with exertion but this is purely a preconception my part.

With an "n" of 2, I hardly think that whatever your physician says can be particularly enlightening.

I'll check out PubMed and Rubicon and see how I get on with them. Thanks for the links.

Consider sharing what you learn with your physician. He might appreciate any relevant citations with abstracts that you could provide. I have no idea how current his knowledge is of published research on IPE, but I have witnessed firsthand a fair amount of ignorance among medical professionals using basic online literature search tools.

 

[InTheDrink]

@InTheDrink: To clarify, I wasn't even questioning the veracity of the data present in the blog. I was simply pointing out that interpretation of such data can be tricky. How the data was collected and whether the data is "trustworthy" are separate issues entirely.

With an "n" of 2, I hardly think that whatever your physician says can be particularly enlightening.

Consider sharing what you learn with your physician. He might appreciate any relevant citations with abstracts that you could provide. I have no idea how current his knowledge is of published research on IPE, but I have witnessed firsthand a fair amount of ignorance among medical professionals using basic online literature search tools.

My buddy is a statistician and you're *nearly* as annoying as him

n = 2 is better than n = 0. If someone that wasn't exerting got it then that is relevant to me no matter how small the sample size. I will read more from Rubicon (I am struggling with getting much detail from PubMed - me being thick no doubt) to get more data. And will feed what I think is relevant into my care. I actually do have a lot of confidence in the few doctors I'm speaking to - this is rare for me, I don't normally place a lot of faith in them (sorry to all docs out there!) but the ones I am being treated by and in dialogue with seem to have a good handle on (I)PE, as good as anyone out there I'd say (albeit from my near novice perspective). But I'll read and bring anything to the table that I can so that we can mutually get the best result for me, them and the community.

Cheers Bubble, I really appreciate your input and the link to Rubicon particularly helpful.

John