Pros & Cons of Using a Full Face Mask

[k-valve]

My point was that an air share should not be a clusterF, esp. with a long hose. Most likely it would be temporary due to something like a busted 2nd stage.

No argument there...an air share should be quick and uncomplicated. My thinking is that any diver's reaction to a tight situation depends on their experience, preparation (dive, equip, training), and disposition, not equipment configuration.

I bet there are FFM divers out there that can have that mask off and be breathing off their octo in a heartbeat. I'd bet that they'd pull a spare mask out of their pocket, don and clear it, by the second heartbeat. I bet there are even FFM divers out there who have their octo on a long hose for their buddy too. It makes sense to me that if your buddy ran out of air and panicked that they'd go for an octo hanging on a necklace below an FFM before they'd try to take off your FFM. Of course, I'm just talking here since I don't have FFM experience.

With a FFM like an AGA it will be guarranteed. Just with all the mask removal and clearing alone, nevermind the gas sharing.

Guaranteed? 100% for sure SOL, huh? Hmm...

 

[rjack321]

If my buddy is OOG at a 20ft midwater stop, the last thing I want is for us to be whipping off our FFMs and trying to share gas blind. Me trying to fish out my backup and him trying to get a waterfree breath and clear mine.

The AGA mask is huge and takes me a couple of breaths to manuever all the water down to the regulator portion. So the buddy you have donated to is all stressed, can't see, trying to control bouyancy and is loling his head around trying to clear this big honkin mask. Which of course has a fairly complicated 5 point strap and is adjusted for your head not his. And your buddy can't even use a regular mask because the hood has to be cut back to accomodate a FFM. I would not want to dive a regular mask with a big ol' 1 to 1.5inch gap around my face just cause you have a FFM.

And of course some masks don't fit some faces so it may or may not fit his/her head at all. Some of our aquarium divers have to use peices of tubing to adjust the skirt size on the AGA to fit their faces (esp. narrow faced people). Its definately not a universal fit.

You better have a good reason to add all this complexity to an otherwise simple setup. Good reasons being contaminated water, comms required for the dive, or an inwater recompression dive. The cool factor is not good reason. But if you wanna spend the money on one, go for it. I agree with the those posters saying you better get accustomed to solo diving.

 

[pipedope]

I prefer a FFM or helmet when surface supplied. Havind a dry face and full comms just makes many jobs safer and more comfortable.

On SCUBA and all recreational diving I prefer conventional mask regulator setup with a low volume mask.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

If my buddy is OOG at a 20ft midwater stop, the last thing I want is for us to be whipping off our FFMs and trying to share gas blind. Me trying to fish out my backup and him trying to get a waterfree breath and clear mine.

The AGA mask is huge and takes me a couple of breaths to manuever all the water down to the regulator portion. So the buddy you have donated to is all stressed, can't see, trying to control bouyancy and is loling his head around trying to clear this big honkin mask. Which of course has a fairly complicated 5 point strap and is adjusted for your head not his. And your buddy can't even use a regular mask because the hood has to be cut back to accomodate a FFM. I would not want to dive a regular mask with a big ol' 1 to 1.5inch gap around my face just cause you have a FFM.

And of course some masks don't fit some faces so it may or may not fit his/her head at all. Some of our aquarium divers have to use peices of tubing to adjust the skirt size on the AGA to fit their faces (esp. narrow faced people). Its definately not a universal fit.

You better have a good reason to add all this complexity to an otherwise simple setup. Good reasons being contaminated water, comms required for the dive, or an inwater recompression dive. The cool factor is not good reason. But if you wanna spend the money on one, go for it. I agree with the those posters saying you better get accustomed to solo diving.

Well stated. Much of that underlies the reasoning behind the design of the M-48, which reduces some of the problems described - but not all of them, so again if a diver uses a FFM it needs to be for legitimate reasons and not just because it is perceived as being a cool piece of equipment.

 

[k-valve]

If my buddy is OOG at a 20ft midwater stop, the last thing I want is for us to be whipping off our FFMs and trying to share gas blind. Me trying to fish out my backup and him trying to get a waterfree breath and clear mine.

The AGA mask is huge and takes me a couple of breaths to manuever all the water down to the regulator portion. So the buddy you have donated to is all stressed, can't see, trying to control bouyancy and is loling his head around trying to clear this big honkin mask. Which of course has a fairly complicated 5 point strap and is adjusted for your head not his. And your buddy can't even use a regular mask because the hood has to be cut back to accomodate a FFM. I would not want to dive a regular mask with a big ol' 1 to 1.5inch gap around my face just cause you have a FFM.

And of course some masks don't fit some faces so it may or may not fit his/her head at all. Some of our aquarium divers have to use peices of tubing to adjust the skirt size on the AGA to fit their faces (esp. narrow faced people). Its definately not a universal fit.

You better have a good reason to add all this complexity to an otherwise simple setup. Good reasons being contaminated water, comms required for the dive, or an inwater recompression dive. The cool factor is not good reason. But if you wanna spend the money on one, go for it. I agree with the those posters saying you better get accustomed to solo diving.

I must've missed something, because I don't remember asking "Does anyone think FFMs are cool?" That never factored into the basis of the inquiry. I was only interested in finding out the pros and cons from those experienced diving them. I haven't totally made up my mind yet, but I'm leaning toward not getting one as I'm not sure I need an FFM.

I appreciate your clear opinion that they are not good choice in most cases, that you believe they are too complex...that the weaknesses of the system outweigh the strengths. If I decide to purchase an FFM it'll be because there aren't enough advantages to justify the changeover.

The idea of an increased chance of hypercapnia concerns me, but air sharing? Come on...that's a stretch. Could a situation arise where your buddy has an OOG event and your octo isn't functional. Sure. Is it likely. No. I'm going to mitigate that possibility as much as I can by inspecting my gear before every dive and making sure it is regularly serviced. I do that anyway.

Maybe instead of lumping all FFMs into the category of being difficult to don, doff and clear it might be better to say the one you have experience with is difficult to don, doff, and clear.

...and if someone doesn't want to dive with me because of my gear selection that's not a problem for me. That's their issue not mine.

 

[k-valve]

I greatly appreciate all the info you've all posted. I appreciate it! You've given me plenty to think about. I definitely have some research to do! Thanks!

 

[texdiveguy]

John save your monies!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Since this is the "technical forum" I think the pros and cons should be framed in that context. As far as I'm concerned one of the most critical tasks on a technical dive is gas swithing and some dives can require LOTS of gas switching...say you're using 2 or 3 decompression gasses, a stage bottle or two and rack up a significant amount of decompression. Between stages, decompression gasses and taking back gas breaks during decompression, you might end up doing 15 or 20 gas switches. If you're diving in a "team situation" you could be called on to donate whatever gas that you might be on at the time. Getting the wrong gas at the wrong depth could bring your dive and your life to an abrupt halt. Gas switch procedures nned to be pretty much fool proof and I haven't seen a FFM setup that I really think provides that.

Voice communications is sometimes touted as a big advantage but is it? We already have clear enough means to communicate the important stuff to our buddy. I doubt that there is much anyone on the surface can do to help you if you have a problem on a technical dive. Additionally, I think that most UW comms are ultrasonic and, due to obstructions, turbidity or even thermoclines, you may not be able to talk to the surface (or your buddy for that matter). I don't think I'd want to go changing my gas switch procedures for the ability to chat.

I don't see FFM's as being very well suited for most technical diving.

 

[rjack321]

The idea of an increased chance of hypercapnia concerns me, but air sharing? Come on...that's a stretch. Could a situation arise where your buddy has an OOG event and your octo isn't functional. Sure. Is it likely. No. I'm going to mitigate that possibility as much as I can by inspecting my gear before every dive and making sure it is regularly serviced. I do that anyway.

Buddies forget to turn on the correct gas and similar sorts of things. Sure being OUT of gas is rare, not having immediate access to it is much more common. Eg. many divers mistakenly turn off all their gas in valve drill. They should have easy access to yours when (not if) that happens.

I
Maybe instead of lumping all FFMs into the category of being difficult to don, doff and clear it might be better to say the one you have experience with is difficult to don, doff, and clear.

I am specifically talking about AGAs (and said so earlier). I use them on surface supply in our local aquarium with a wire comm (although they have wireless they use in OW off their pier). DA-Aquamaster has described an alternative that sounds like it address alot of my FFM issues. I know they aren't all alike.

...and if someone doesn't want to dive with me because of my gear selection that's not a problem for me. That's their issue not mine.

My buddies do double duty as my friends, I value them more than particular gear.

 

[jim T.]

Looks like my removable pod question got placed after DA Aquamaster's post due to the thread combine...
I took a one night pool session OceanReef FFM seminar and found clearing, removal and the plugging in of an alternate air source pretty easy for a relatively new diver. There are pull tabs on the head harness that releases the mask immediately. I found it hard to get the nose blocks to fit me comfortably for clearing but with more time with the mask, maybe it wouldn't be an issue. I did find it kind of claustrophobic but think I could get used to it over time. Defogging was pretty easy. Ocean Reef masks seem to get a lot of criticism on the boards compared with other brands but never knew why?

I just wanted to check them out as it would be nice to have gas in an ox tox situation and there doesn't seem to be any other systems available to keep gas/ a reg in one's mouth dependably.

I wasn't that impressed with the communications system but we were "fore warned" that the bubbles in the pool's filtering system circulation would make them less efficient than in OW...don't know how true that is.

Other than the perceived Ox-tox/CO2 blackout protection they are somewhat cumbersome for recreational use.

I wouldn't mind experimenting with the Ocean Reef and some other brands, again, sometime, but
the removable pod type would be my lst choice.