Product Review: New “Generation 2” BARE SB Drysuit

[Deep South Divers]

Yep, Doug's a good guy. He measured me for the new CLX450 I never bought because I found out I was pretty close to a stock XL... And I found one used for like 1/3rd the price of a new one.

Doug and I go way back. That's who you're talking about, right? Doug Mudry? He eventually married Jarrod's sister. It's a very tight-knit group.

I had a SANTI e.lite and e.space last year. Nice suits... Very well-built. Hated the stiff boots mine came with. Terrible for donning and doffing and no ankle flexibility for fine fin movements. My first introduction to the TiZip. I was unsure of it at the time, but liked the TiZip's flatness, slick operation, flexibility and reduced need of lube. DUI says they don't last as long as metal zips, but we have had zero problems with our TiZips over the 500 or so dives we've done in them.

All three of these suits are great for what they are: Lightweight yet rugged, fast-drying and feature-packed. They really shine in warm water because there's zero inherent thermal protection and can be worn even in 72° water with the right undergarment.

There's a "trick" to getting these suits that have no inherent stretch to give when you want them to: When first entering the water, close the exhaust valve and inflate the suit. Assume the prone DIR diving position and deflate. Now all the material will be "bunched" in the proper place for movement - assuming you're basically in that position for the dive... Which is one of the reasons why DIR teaches that position consistently. Works great - no more movement of fabric during your valve drill, 'cause the fabric's already in the right spot.

Unfortunately, us commercial guys are rarely in a predictable position. It all depends on the job at hand... Which is why we like stretchy suits.

 

[KevinNM]

Yup, it's Doug. I have to work a bit harder due to limited shoulder mobility, but that is part of the process.

I used socks with converse sneakers or boots with the Bare and I find the boots the santi has are very flexible, the sole is a little more flexible that I like.

I've heard the CF200 is extraordinarily tough.

Though I've also heard the DUI estimate of how many dives the "average diver" is predicted to put on their drysuit, and based on that you have to be at least 3 standard deviations to the right of average. So we will see how long it takes for you to break it.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I believe the boots that my SANTIs had were the standard neoprene boots. They were stiff and unforgiving in my opinion, and not exactly condusive to a toes-low swimming position or ankle-flexing fin scull. Mod flutters, mod frogs and back kicks were all restricted. The worst part was that it was nearly impossible to get into without the back of the boot sliding the foot strap off of my undergarment and bunching it up behind my foot. Perhaps it was actually a sizing problem... I can't imagine anyone would be happy with them.

The flex sole looks to be a much better design - identical to what my BARE SB came with, except that the pattern on the instep is a little different. I suspect that these boots are standard parts made by SiTech... Even if SANTI claims that they're exclusive. Perhaps that's an exclusive pattern on the instep.

I honestly don't see too much difference between this boot and the DUI Turbosole. I like the additional rubber on the wear areas of the SANTI Flexsoles, but also like the simplicity and minimalistic design of the Turbos. Jet fins fit Turbosoles better in my opinion, but I like Hollis' F1 fins too and the foot pocket in them is a bit better designed than on a Jet fin, so there's always a combination that works well for me. Size 11 here.

I'm not a fan of Rock Boots or Converses or any similar overboot design. Too much bulk, and I hate the extra step in donning and doffing. I might feel differently if I were diving in rocky areas instead of on docks and boats.

...Of course, all of the above is just an opinion... Diving nearly every work day puts me in a position of not really caring too passionately about the little things like suit trim pieces and boots and specific fin selection. The big question is... Can I get my work done and be home before nightfall?

Yeah, the CF200 has that reputation, which tells me that it's a good option for betting a paycheck on... Not to mention the best option for working on barnacled, oystered, splintered, nail-headed docks and old boats. What better suit to wear when running an underwater chainsaw?

That said, some of us (me included) have made the mistake of holing both wet and drysuits so many times over the past couple decades that we've gotten pretty good at being svelte and preventing damage to suits... Hence, the durability of a suit is less of a priority than one might think. One of my guys even dives a TLS350, long-touted as the thinnest, lightest, and most puncture-prone of the "membrane" trilaminate suits. 3mil wetsuits are standard summer fare here for us, too, and they can be fairly fragile, especially in terms of abrasion. Our forearms wear out first... Then the outsides of our shoulders, where we lean against things if we brace ourselves for work. Knees and upper thighs wear out too.

But make no mistake: My biggest attraction to the CF200 is it's performance. It's ability to stretch allows us to run with an equalized suit and not experience any net loss in range of motion... And that is everything in the commercial diving world... And sometimes why we choose to dive wet when we could be diving dry.

This BARE SB is going back to BARE with no visible wear.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Though I've also heard the DUI estimate of how many dives the "average diver" is predicted to put on their drysuit, and based on that you have to be at least 3 standard deviations to the right of average. So we will see how long it takes for you to break it.

Oh, you flatter me.

Yeah, I do dive more often than anyone I know. I'm not saying that to sound macho... It's just that's what I chose to do for a living. Every hour anyone else is at work is generally an hour that I am diving or cleaning up after a dive or prepping a dive or selling a dive or collecting money for having done a dive. Essentially five days a week I dive two dives a day... Sometimes more.

All dives are generally done in crap water... Fast-running, cold, salty, muddy, and often contaminated. In some cases there's a sheen of diesel fuel on the surface. Many times I have to fashion my own exit point, because there is no ladder or way to get out of the water. Every dive site is different, and priority one is current, which means timing my dives with the tides... Two is exit point and three is freshwater rinse.

Visibility is typically zero... Or near zero. Sometimes a light helps; other times it makes no difference. We've all learned to do without.

Almost all dives are done in the 0-15 ft range... But can sometimes run in the 30-60 ft range. Some people wouldn't even call some of our dives "dives."

...So we're far right of center statistically, but our environment is different than most's. These aren't average-diver dives. Conditions are much harsher in some ways but much simpler in others.

Last winter I spent roughly three weeks in 0-15 feet of 42° water cutting down 202 old dock pilings in Hilton Head. I dove both wet and dry. DEEP SOUTH DIVERS - Cutting down a dock with an underwater chainsaw

 

[Deep South Divers]

Update:

At BARE's request, I sent the SB - and all that it came with (bag, talc, hose, blanking plug, pee valve) back to BARE for examination and leak testing. Looks like my last post in this thread was March 22nd. I probably sent it out the following Monday, the 28th. I waited a week or so and called them, and they acknowledged that they received it and forwarded it for testing to their facility in Canada, which is apparently where they make their drysuits. Dunno why I couldn't send it there directly, but whatever. At least I didn't have to do the customs thing.

The big issue with shipping twice, of course, is time... And having to dive wet in less than ideal conditions, when I have paid for - and should be diving - a drysuit. Every time I had to rinse off - in swim trunks - with a hose on a chilly, windblown dock, I cursed BARE out. How spoiled we are now! I did it this way for a decade and a half...

Anyway, this morning I called BARE - or at least attempted to - using the phone numbers I had, and even a few that I had Googled. It was a nightmare, and none of the calls actually resulted in a ringtone on the other end. Apparently there was something wrong with their phone system. By the time I gave up I was genuinely ticked at BARE and wishing I'd purchased something else.

I did my best to remain composed as I drafted an email to the general email box on their website, essentially requesting a full refund.

Within minutes (?!) I got a phone call from a BARE representative that put me directly in touch with "the factory." At "the factory" my representative's name was Sandy, and Sandy was spot-on and fully understood the problem. Apparently he was one of the guys I spoke with the twice I'd been able to talk to someone before, and he remembered me.

First, he apologized for it taking so long and claimed it as his own fault personally, which deflated my frustrations pretty quickly. He then explained that they'd been testing the suit rather rigorously, since it was a "Gen 2" SB and still having problems. I initially thought he was going to try to void the warranty on the suit based on the fact that it was being used commercially, but instead simply told me that the suit wasn't really built for the extreme conditions I had been using it for, and offered a brand-new BARE XCS2 in it's place, which he assured would be much more capable of handling our rigorous dive schedule and harsh conditions.

Not being a fan of the buoyancy associated with neoprene drysuits, I initially declined, and asked for a full refund. He never said no, but said that such a circumstance would take upper management approval, and wasn't par for the course. I then suggested that we exchange for another trilaminate suit (read: popular) that I could essentially eBay and get my money back out of.

"Are you thinking about another manufacturer's suit?"

"Yes, a DUI CF200 will replace the BARE SB. It's stretchier than the SB and a lot more rugged than any trilaminate. Best of all, I found out that the neoprene used in the CF200 is not only NOT buoyant, but is actually negative. I'm in."

"Yeah, we built the XCS2 to compete directly with the CF200."

We then went into features of the XCS2, and they seemed to compare rather favorably... To include cost. And of course, there is no extending torso - which I prefer in a stretch suit but really concluded to be a wash - and I asked about a TiZip.

"The TiZips are interesting. What's your thoughts on a TiZip?"

"Well, I really like their flatness and their flexibility... And while I have heard the contrary, I have found them to be less problematic than metal zips and love the fact that I don't have to lube a zipper twice a day. The metal zips seem stiff and old-fashioned to me, and I have had plenty of problems with them - usually from fraying fabric getting caught in the teeth. No such thing with the TiZips because you don't have to crank them for them to work."

"Well, we have had a love/hate affair with the TiZip... But there seems to have been a batch of them that leak for no apparent reason... No damage or break, they just leak... And we're just starting to see them come in for warranty now... Which is why we have switched to YKK's plastic zipper. They just seem to be more reliable and better built, with all of the same advantages."

This was a final straw for me... The CF200 only comes with a metal zip, and I thought I was going to have to bite the bullet on this one and go back to a metal zip to get a suit that stretched but didn't fall apart.

"...But we can put in any zipper you prefer... YKK metal, TiZip, or the new YKK plastic."

"Wow. Okay. I'll do that new YKK plastic one please. I've heard good things..."

Additional discussion ensued about the problems they found with my SB.. They were undecided if my seams had actually failed or if it was, in fact, delamination. They'd also found about five leaks, not just one... And they seemed shocked to hear that the wear on the shoulders was from a single AL80 on a lightweight rig and not some huge double LP104 rig.

We also discussed the fact that the SB was worth considerably more than the XCS2 they are sending me... But I opted to have installed a butt pad and two zipper bellows pockets installed on the otherwise pocketless XCS2, and that pretty much made up the difference. Otherwise, the suits will be identical with pee valve, SiTech oval rings, and latex bottle wrist seals and neck seal. I opted for the blue shoulders.

...So essentially, new "hyper-compressed" neoprene suit (it started life as 2mm neoprene) without an extending torso and the latest YKK plastic zip... For no additional charge.

Should be here in about a month.

I'll keep y'all posted.

I'm still worried about inherent buoyancy. I'll let you know how it works out, weighting-wise.

 

[KevinNM]

Sounds good. Inherently stretchy sounds good too, as I have to spend a few minutes rearranging my trilaminate suit at the start of the dive so I can reach the valves. And it's still not easy.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Signed off on my order for the XCS2 today.

Always exciting.

Thank you, BARE.

 

[bada3003]

Signed off on my order for the XCS2 today.

View attachment 372343 View attachment 372344 View attachment 372345

Always exciting.

Thank you, BARE.

Very informative posts. I was thinking about getting a SB but your posts helped prevent future headaches. I dive trilams with tizips but also looking for more stretchier, streamlined drysuit. Look forward to your thoughts on the XCS2 with YKK's plastic zip.

 

[Deep South Divers]

BARE hinted at a Generation 3 SB... But nothing's been announced yet.

Honestly, the suit dove great... And other manufacturers have pointed out that "stretch trilaminate" would be the holy grail of drysuitdom, providing the advantages of both neoprene and trilaminate suits without the disadvantages of either. That manufacturer, though, pointed out that nobody has been able to find a stretch trilaminate with enough durability to bring to market. The Generation I SB was a good try, and in the Generation II the stretchiness decreased in favor of durability. So now it lasts 300 dives instead of 100.

The XCS2, like DUI's CF200 drysuit, takes the opposite approach, removing the thickness and buoyancy of neoprene to make it pack lighter, dry faster, and float less... In other words, make a neoprene drysuit dive more like a trilaminate. In the case of the CF200, they were actually able to reduce buoyancy so much that the fabric was actually negatively buoyant! To me, this seems the ideal drysuit.

I'll keep y'all posted on whether or not the XCS2's fabric is as good. Frankly, BARE claims that their neoprene is 30% thinner than the CF200 material, but DUI is very proud of their patented neoprene-crushing, in-house hyperbaric chamber process they use to crush their neoprene and reduce it's buoyancy. It clearly works! We'll have to see if the XCS2 can measure up.

I already like the non-telescoping torso and zipper options of the XCS2 over the CF200's... Although DUI has solid reasons why they do things the way they do.

 

[diverpiper]

I had an Bare SB for 4 years! I have tried 4 other drysuits in the past and nothing could beat the SB. I loved it, I dove all year in it. It was so comfortable and I needed less weight than a wetsuit. I had to send it back to Bare for what I thought was a leak in the zipper. Then my dive shop called me, it has horrible news...my suit was toast. It had more than 12 leaks and it was delaminating all over!!! I was crushed! I was devastated! Bare bless them sent me a new Bare trilam suit as a replacement. It's ok but it's not an SB. I miss it so much! But until they get the delaminating problem under controll I will hold off purchasing a new one. I will wait as long as it takes, and if they fix the issue I will buy another SB. I just wish it would have lasted me longer.