Problem with Magnum First Stage Service by Authorized Service Center

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waterskier,

As I said before, I don't know the details of your particular situation other than what you have stated here. I have spoke to the owner there at U/W Connection and he has given me a different story. But based on what you have stated in this forum, should U/W Connections shared this information with you? My answer would be yes.


Sherwood Scuba Rep.

Would you kindly relate the owners "story" to me? Either here or via a PM? I'm interested in what he has to say regarding what the flow restrictor assembly (we didn't call it that...neither of knew the term for it at that time) was for and why the filter wasn't changed...or does he claim it was? Did he maintain denial that the replacement parts were in the kit too? I'd also be interested in what he claims his logs show for the IP. And, I'd be interested if he claimed that some of the procedures were not/could not be followed. I have proof of payment that his shop did charge me - twice - for a hard breathing at depth reg, and it came back with "nothing wrong".

You have indicated that Sherwood has no interest in following up on this event, but could you please let me know U/W Connections side of the story? I'm sure you presented them with mine.
 
Does your dealer agreement place any requirements on your authorized dealers in terms of the service to be performed when servicing Sherwood regulators or any other LDS after-the-sale service related to Sherwood products?

As a customer, what can I expect from an Sherwood dealer in terms of service? And who should I contact when that expected service is not satisfactorily provided?


Our Dealer Agreement states that all services performed on our equipment needs to be done according to the procedures set forth in our manuals.

Your expectations any Dealer should be very high. Sherwood Scuba or otherwise: this is life support equipment and if you don't think the dive center can provide you the support you should need, you shouldn't use them; regardless of whether it is Sherwood Scuba or any other manufacturer.
 


Our Dealer Agreement states that all services performed on our equipment needs to be done according to the procedures set forth in our manuals.



Thank you. Seems to me that is the answer to the OP's question.
 
waterskier,

As you can tell from my posts. I am not going to get in the middle of a "He said, she said" battle. I have tried to my best to stay out of the issues between the two of you.

The only thing that I have indicated is that I am not going to follow up on this event on this forum. We have had conversations with U/W Connection, and what happens as a result of this event is not something for us to handle in a public forum.

Your frustrations with U/W Connections would seem to be understandable. But I am not going to chastise or take sides with either party within this forum. I have given you the answers to your questions. Your resolutions to these issues need to come from U/W Connection.

Sherwood Scuba
 
I know this thread is months old now, but I'm curious if it ever came to a satisfactory conclusion. I can understand Sherwood not wanting to have the whole story aired in a public forum, but I hope that the OP finally got some satisfaction.
 
I know this thread is months old now, but I'm curious if it ever came to a satisfactory conclusion. I can understand Sherwood not wanting to have the whole story aired in a public forum, but I hope that the OP finally got some satisfaction.

Sherwood did indeed answer all my questions regarding what to expect from one of their dealers. They claim to also have contacted the owner of the LDS, although they would not communicate what the outcome of that was. Underwater Connections has not attempted to contact me since they "asked me to leave" their store. I haven't "begged" to go back to spend my hard earned money and be mistreated. Ironically, they are also the only local dealer for DUI and Whites (fusion) dry suits that I was in the market for. I was planning on buying a suit from them the day I returned the regulators after finding the problem they caused - which I only wanted to bring to their attention since it appeared that they missed something. I think they expected me to sue them or worse, from the over reaction they gave me. Obviously, I didn't buy from them since I was asked to take my business elsewhere.

I didn't expect Sherwood to do as much as they did. They confirmed that the service should have been done per their published manual, and that the parts in question are necessary, and the most likely part to cause the problem I was experiencing, and that the parts were indeed included in the Sherwood parts kit, contrary to what the LDS owner claimed. They also let the LDS owner know they had a complaint.

Now, if anyone asks me about Underwater Connections, I let them know that they have wonderful instructors, but their owner and repair technician or ignorant, arrogant, incompetent, lazy, or all of the above. I suspect that they know how to maintain the equipment in their rental fleet, but caution them not to expect service or repairs will be done correctly.

The regulator in question is toast...it is beyond cost effective repair (I could buy a new one cheaper), but I didn't. The experience soured me. Clearly you don't have to know anything special to claim to work on regulators, and it is basically a self-regulating industry. Though this experience I gained a lot of knowledge on how to service regulators, and how they work - and how to properly follow the manufacturer's service manual. I've since bought all the tools necessary to service the regulators, including a magnehelic which the LDS didn't even own (a $50 item). I don't see myself taking any regulators in for service again. This is not to say that, should they not meet the requirements after service (like in this case) I wouldn't send them in to someone for repair.

Since this occurred, I have paid a lot of attention to how regs perform immediately after service. I venture to guess that upwards of 70% have some sort of malfunction on their first usage after the service. This might be something that could easily be corrected during the dive, or might require return for correction, but that is way, way to high, IMHO, for "critical life support" equipment.

My recommendation would be to make sure the place you take your equipment to be serviced uses that equipment, and therefore services that equipment, on a very regular basis. They are much more likely to know the proper procedure, and to have seen the problem with equipment they work on all the time. In my case, even though they were an Authorized Service Center (which doesn't really mean anything to someone who isn't having warranty work done), they seem to rarely work on Sherwood regulators. In fact, when I took them in the first time, I was told by the owner that Sherwood no longer makes regulators, but buys cheap ones from China. He said they are basically an Industrial Valve company, and I should consider buying a regulator from a company that specializes in scuba equipment. That should have told me something, more than he wanted to make a new equipment sale.
 
One of my dive buddies used to complain about the breathing effort of an SRB7900 Blizzard that he bought new from LeisurePro. I've carefully studied the manuals from www.frogkick.dk (SRB5900 looks exactly the same) and even bought a new Blizzard for myself to study. I performed the "Dry Air Bleed Flow Test" on the new reg and counted 25cc per minute...perfect! But the old one had exactly zero flow. I've never noticed a stream of bubbles from his reg during any dive. If I had, I would have thought that there was something wrong, that is until I learned how it works.
We pulled the 5105-15 Flow Assembly and removed the old 5105-14 filter. After ultra-sonic cleaning the 5105-13 Flow Restrictor the problem is clear that there is no laser drilled hole through this part. 'Seems like a hole started from one end, but a cleanly machined surface on the other.
I've emailed my LDS requesting a new restrictor, and also tried to order online without reply. Any recommendations for getting this part replaced without paying for "service"? We have the 4000-15 kit with a new 5015-14 ready to install unless we can get a -15 assembly. 'Guess I've got a good one in my new reg, but I'm not giving it up.
 
We pulled the 5105-15 Flow Assembly and removed the old 5105-14 filter. After ultra-sonic cleaning the 5105-13 Flow Restrictor the problem is clear that there is no laser drilled hole through this part. 'Seems like a hole started from one end, but a cleanly machined surface on the other.

I'm no regulator expert, but I'm doing a lot of research on Sherwoods.

Note on p. 7 of the service manual, step 10, that there was an "old style [flow control assembly] with a sintered stainless steel flow restrictor and the new style flow restrictor that is laser drilled [...] If the regulator has the old style flow restrictor and it is functioning (13 to 27 cc/min) it can be reused, however if it needs to be replaced use the new style."

Sounds like your buddy had the old-style restrictor, that got clogged up? As I understand sintered metal, it can be porous, and that's how the old-style restrictors worked.

I do note that your LDS has ordered the part; that would be the new-style laser-drilled restrictor with the filter.
 
Let me see if I understand how the Sherwood Dry Air Bleed system works, and what happens if it malfunctions...

In a typical piston first stage, the chamber where the spring is (around the piston stem) is under ambient water pressure, while the chamber above the piston is under intermediate pressure. The spring under the piston tends to open the piston valve, while the IP above the piston tends to close it.

Sherwood bleeds small amounts of air into the spring chamber, just enough to keep it -- I'm guessing -- just a tiny bit above ambient, in order to keep water out. And that's what bleeds out as a small stream of bubbles.

So a Sherwood spring is just a touch weaker than it would be without the Dry Air Bleed system, because the additional air pressure in that chamber helps the spring keep the valve open.

The air is bled into the spring chamber through the flow control element.

So if the flow control element gets clogged, the pressure in the spring chamber drops to ambient pressure. Water can get into the spring chamber. But more importantly, the (relatively weaker) spring alone isn't then capable of keeping the piston valve open enough to maintain proper IP, and the regulator gets very hard to breathe.

Right?

Scary. Does this type of failure happen often? Does it happen suddenly?
 

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