Problem with foggy masks

[Dan]

First post at this forum. The latest years my biggest hobby has been a combination of snorkeling and free diving: I am using the snorkel for breathing in a relaxed position before doing a deeper or longer dive.

I have two Scubapro masks: one older Frameless and last year I bought a Solo. My problem is that both of these masks are so easily getting foggy. As I am living in Finland, the water is often on the colder side, which is worsening the problem. Sadly, I would need to flush the masks after each dive, which is just frustrating. Besides spit, I have tried 3 different anti-fog solutions: one non-brand, one made by Cressi and one made by Scubapro. They do not make any big difference.

Are there any masks that are more resistant against fog? Or a really good anti-fog solution?

I used toothpaste to scrub & scrub & scrub the silicone coating off the tempered glass lens of my 1st mask (3-4x) & baby shampoo before each dives. It took me 100 dives before the silicone coat was gone & the mask to stop fogging. Then I lost my mask when I jumped into the water with MOF.

When I bought my 2nd mask, the LDS showed me how to defog the lens once & for all by burning off the silicone coat. It worked so well & very easy to do, I bought 3rd mask as a back up to the 2nd mask & did the flaming myself.

You only need to flame it once. Afterwards you wipe the black soot off the lens. Then apply baby shampoo before each dives. That’s it. No more fogging up the mask.

Another tip:
Don’t exhale through the nose while diving. You just steam up your mask by doing that. You only need to do that when the mask leak & you want to drain the water out of the mask. Always exhale through your mouth on the reg.

 

[Dan]

We made a video as well.

Flaming part of the video guide is excellent!

Toothpaste part of the video guide did not work for me. Besides, polymer silicone doesn’t react with toothpaste. It’s all mechanical action by scrubbing the thin silicone layer off the lens. It’s a hard work to scrub polymer coating off a surface.

 

[scrane]

I thought fogging masks was no big deal until I got a mask that would not clear. I wrestled with it for weeks until finally a session with a butane lighter did the trick.

 

[tridacna]

Flaming part of the video guide is excellent!

Toothpaste part of the video guide did not work for me. Besides, polymer silicone doesn’t react with toothpaste. It’s all mechanical action by scrubbing the thin silicone layer off the lens. It’s a hard work to scrub polymer coating off a surface.

Fianally someone else recognises that chemically inert silicone CANNOT react with chemically inert toothpaste. Dano’s video is good except when the guy misinforms us about “leaving the toothpaste on the mask” and how it magically removes the silicone through some kind of “chemical reaction”. I thought that I was viewing an article from The Onion.

 

[taimen]

Now there are two theories about the compound we need to remove from the mask. Some say it is silicone, others claim it's silicone mold release agent residue. I believe it is mold release agent, that also may evaporate in the mask box and mist all its contents during storage.
Thus cleaning and flaming both the mask and the mask box and storing them in open air (at least when relatively new) seems to help fogging.
I have never seen any description on what this release agent is chemically.
It is surprisingly resistant to detergents resembling silicone. And burning seems to change its composition and hydrophilic properties so it doesn't induce fogging any more and can be removed with light abrasives.

 

[Dan]

Fianally someone else recognises that chemically inert silicone CANNOT react with chemically inert toothpaste. Dano’s video is good except when the guy misinforms us about “leaving the toothpaste on the mask” and how it magically removes the silicone through some kind of “chemical reaction”. I thought that I was viewing an article from The Onion.

I’m a Chemical Engineer and my job is design & troubleshoot process equipment for making polyethylene, polycarbonate, polystyrene, polyurethane, epoxy & ABS in the past 30 years, so I know a little bit about polymeric reaction processes. Burn them off is the easiest way to get rid of polymers.

 

[taimen]

I’m a Chemical Engineer and my job is design & troubleshoot process equipment for making polyethylene, polycarbonate, polyurethane, epoxy & ABS in the past 30 years, so I know a little bit about polymeric reaction processes.

So what is the compound we are dealing with that causes mask fogging? How it ends up deposited onto mask glass surface?
I have the removal part nailed with butane torch and magic eraser, but could we figure out something more elegant?

 

[tridacna]

It is a silicone based mold release agent. It is notoriously tough to remove. It fills the microcavities in the glass surface. Essentially, you need to get the compound out of those cavities. Flame or abrasion. Flame is obviously a better way to remove it but I have personally seen about a dozen masks over the past two years that have been permanently damaged by fire, one of which was a $180 Atomics Venom. Expensive mistakes.

Once removed, those cavities are filled with whatever anti-fog chemical you choose and that prevents the watervapor from adhering to the glass.

The agent is an absolute requirement of the manufacturing process. There are non-silicone based agents but I have no idea whether they are appropriate for manufacturing masks.

 

[Dan]

So what is the compound we are dealing with that causes mask fogging? How it ends up deposited onto mask glass surface?
I have the removal part nailed with butane torch and magic eraser, but could we figure out something more elegant?

Release agent - Wikipedia

 

[taimen]

Release agent - Wikipedia

Yeah, figured out that much. But as far as I understand, the release agent is used when molding the silicone skirt of the mask. It isn't applied to glass surfaces, so it somehow transfers from silicone parts onto glass surface. Is it volatile and evaporates in the storage box and later deposits on the glass or what? And what is used to remove release agent traces in the industry when required? Probably not lighters and toothpaste? At the price we are buying the masks I somewhat understand this step has been skipped, but still it is intriguing how something (even a scuba mask) is produced and delivered in unusable condition.