prism topaz

[fins wake]

I agree they have no authority per se but the way the EU regulations are written it basically limits helium based gases strictly to commercial divers,

??? :11:

and the regulations that most follow are that of the HSE.

Not in the strict legal sense, as Jonny indicated earlier. It is however true that the British HSE regulations have inspired some other EU countries' regulations (particularly Scandinavian legislation), and thus in some way indirectly may have influenced EU legislation as a whole. European divers still follow their own national laws, however (which nowadays all are founded in common EU legislation or should be ...).

He personally will still be able to train since he is a commercial diver trainer, but it doesn;t help the rest of us.

This seems a bit odd, because commercial diving is very highly regulated in the EU, much more so than recreational diving. In Britain or Sweden, for example, it is precisely the "commercial" nature of professional dive instruction that leads to its very stringent regulation. As a private diver, one is very often "allowed" to do things which a dive instructor or a commercial diver is not. For example, a private diver in Sweden does not really face any depth limits (other than self-imposed agency recommendations) but a dive instructor or commercial diver does actually have to contend with specific nationally imposed regulation specifically limiting maximum depth. This leads to some very interesting conflicts for technical instructors in Sweden, particularly those running deep air courses.

I'm not quite sure what Joe is referring to in his specific example (helium mixes and EU legislation), though, so I'm not arguing against him, just wondering aloud, that's all.

 

[RebreatherDave]

Is the double names of all this stuff confusing, or is it just me? Why not Prism, Prism Mk2, Inspiration, Inspiration Mk2, Inspiration Mk2m (for mini), etc?

Changing setopints, 9as opposed to shifting gears) I am getting a kick out of how vigorously proponents of their own rebreathers stump for them. the Prism v Inspiration is sorta like the Windows/PC v Mac, the only differece is macs ARe way better, lol. Gosh, I would be reasonably happy with any rig along the lines of AP, SM, etc. They're all nice units that do what they are supposed to and have their tradeoffs.

I have the new Vision electronics on order for my Inspiration, but considering I have a spare Inspiration DSV after I put Bob's oc/dsv on, Bob's gas distribution bar, Atomic's second air, I could go with the OMS tech wing, some neoprene streamlined abbreviated shoulder counterlungs, etc, it seems like between all of that, I would almost have enough new or leftover parts to put together a second rig.

I am impressed with the 4-5 hour run times they are getting out of the Evolution scrubber, makes me wonder what the C02 monitor is going to do for the Inspiration scrubber duration. In 60-70 or so dives I have yet to experience any C02 issues when using it on average around 4 hours in 55-80 degrees fahrenheit water and have yet to see anything other then several inches of blue in the sorb although I know that is not supposed to be reliable, but it is sure repeatable.

 

[peterbj7]

The only people who will legally be able to train "trimix" divers is HSE certified trainers, it will also be illegal for anyone to pump trimix to anyone who doent have an HSE certification..

Is this really so? You've needed an HSE medical to teach in Britain for some years, but do you mean an HSE diving qualification will now be needed? Which one? I can't think of any of the present categories that is particularly relevant.

Oh, and Hi! Rob. I've only just discovered this forum.

 

[peterbj7]

I am impressed with the 4-5 hour run times they are getting out of the Evolution scrubber, makes me wonder what the C02 monitor is going to do for the Inspiration scrubber duration. In 60-70 or so dives I have yet to experience any C02 issues when using it on average around 4 hours in 55-80 degrees fahrenheit water and have yet to see anything other then several inches of blue in the sorb although I know that is not supposed to be reliable, but it is sure repeatable.

I routinely get 5 hours+ out of my Inspiration in our 80-85F water, and once (by mistake) I had 7 hours, with no ill effects.

I'm new to this thread and haven't read every post, but I've been involved in these sorts of discussions on another forum. One thread started out by someone claiming the Inspiration was inherently dangerous, and the Prism was the natural instrument of choice. I agree with Rob that the Prism is a fine machine and I would be quite happy to own one, but the only catastrophic failure I've ever seen on any CCR was on a Prism being dived here by one of our guests. I was on my "deathtrap" Inspiration at the time. During a dive we noticed bubbles starting to come from where one of the loop T-pieces joined its counterlung (I forget which one it was now) on the Prism. We started to inspect it more closely and the bubbles got worse, so we aborted the dive with my friend ready to switch to OC. Although there was a lot of water in the machine he was able to remain on CC to the surface. When we looked at it on the boat we saw that the T-piece was merely heat-welded to the counterlung, and it had started to separate. An evening with Aquasure got my guest diving again for the rest of his stay. Steam Machines freely admitted fault and supplied him with the military version of the counterlungs, in which the T-pieces are clamped to the counterlungs instead of just being stuck to them - just like the Inspiration, in fact.

And the only catastrophic failure I've ever experienced personally was on an SCR diver course on a Dolphin, when the (instructor owned and assembled) mouthpiece separated from the loop mid-dive. My first and I pray only experience of a caustic cocktail.

I don't find Inspirations very durable - I've never had more than two years use out of a set of electronics, on three different machines - but I continue to dive one and certainly don't consider it inherently dangerous.

Note that a machine submitted for military testing may well not be the same as you or I could buy. Note also that military testing regimes are very specifically designed for purpose (or at least they are in the UK). In many ways they don't have a lot of relevance to private use. US military testing in particular is very concerned with the origin of materials used, as the DOD is not allowed to trade directly or indirectly with countries the US government doesn't approve of.

 

[RebreatherDave]

Peter,

In three years of diving the only thing that I have done is change my cells on my Inspiration, corroded battery compartment wires resolved with a new battery box, and once one of my handsets had water ingress not through a cracked handset but according to Silent Diving Systems, from water traveling down the handset hose, getting into the handset and corroding the main on off microswitch. I hope water can't travel down the hose and get into the wrist unit of the new Vision controller. I don't know what they have down about the potential for the battery wires corroding.

In three years I have never had a cell warning notification, its been rock solid stable.

 

[peterbj7]

Peter,

In three years of diving the only thing that I have done is change my cells on my Inspiration, corroded battery compartment wires resolved with a new battery box, and once one of my handsets had water ingress not through a cracked handset but according to Silent Diving Systems, from water traveling down the handset hose, getting into the handset and corroding the main on off microswitch. I hope water can't travel down the hose and get into the wrist unit of the new Vision controller. I don't know what they have down about the potential for the battery wires corroding.

In three years I have never had a cell warning notification, its been rock solid stable.

You're lucky, Dave. I have owned four Inspirations and currently own two (at my dive centre, not personally) and in the past year both the machines I currently have have required total replacement of lid electronics, cables and handsets, including battery compartments and solenoids. I had the same experience with another Inspiration I've since sold. I have also had several aborted dives when individual cells have totally dropped out (electronically) due to poor contacts. APD in England even sent me new contacts to fit myself, something they say they've never done before.

Whether it's the environment here in Belize (which is amazingly harsh on all scuba equipment) or just bad luck i can't say, but three total failures in about 4 years is very expensive. Certainly negates any income I've ever made from them, so I shall reduce numbers to just one, for my use and the occasional course. Plus a Meg. We'll still support visiting rebreather divers though, always having 40 Inspiration tanks, sensors, batteries, Sofnalime, side sling tanks, etc., oxygen & helium.

 

[BigJetDriver]

??? :11: This leads to some very interesting conflicts for technical instructors in Sweden, particularly those running deep air courses.

Deep air???? Aayyy, chihuahua!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :11:

Peter, welcome aboard, sir!! Glad to have you join us!

Rob

 

[silent running]

Hello zaf88. My unit goes with me in the overhead, in a small duffel. And I always bring my Prism cylinders with me. That way there's no chance of a screw up. There are places that have them, but you will get charged for using them. I 've never had a problem with putting them in the checked bags. That's where the cover goes too. Even with those things and 1 pail of absorbent in each checked bag, I still come in at the 70lb US limit for each bag. I would love to not bring the stuff, but it can be hard to get higher mesh sorb in remote locations, not to mention the high price you usually have to pay for it. RB trips to the tropics are not usually a bargain. As for the set point being fixed during the dive, it turns out to be not that big of deal. On most recreational dives, I go with a 1.0 sp as when you are doing repetitive dives, you don't want to be much higher for any length of time do to OTU loading. On some deeper dives, I just manually bump up the sp to 1.3 to cut down on deco time for the short time I'm at the deeper depth and let the unit take over when I reach say, 70ft on my up. The VR3 has a way to toggle between 2 sp's manually, which makes this simple, computerwise. As for the few square profile dives I've done, usually on a deeper wreck, it was most efficient to do the whole dive at 1.3, so there was no need to use a lot of different sp's. Remember, the unit will automatically change the sp to .7 at 18ft to prevent wasting gas and which works great for any shallower diving. I've never been very bothered by having to manually bump up the sp during the end of the dive deco/safety stops. The hud led just changes to red when you're over your sp. If a a diver like Howard Hall can forget to change his sp and do most of his 300 plus ft dive at .7 and get bent, we all can.

 

[caveseeker7]

In regards to the Prism's connectors, the "elbows" (there are no t-pieces) that connect the front hoses (to and from the DSV) are held in place by threaded rings. As they're mounted to the bags largest opening they've always been removable to allow access, as well as rotation to adjust the angle.

The connectors on the back of the counterlung are the ones that are fixed. On one batch that connection was faulty, and SMI replaced all of them once they became aware that there's a problem.

They've also replaced or installed the rear connectors for other customers upon request, and the removable connector with threaded ring is slated as a permanent replacement sometime mid-year.

 

[peterbj7]

In regards to the Prism's connectors, the "elbows" (there are no t-pieces) that connect the front hoses (to and from the DSV) are held in place by threaded rings. As they're mounted to the bags largest opening they've always been removable to allow access, as well as rotation to adjust the angle.

The connectors on the back of the counterlung are the ones that are fixed. On one batch that connection was faulty, and SMI replaced all of them once they became aware that there's a problem.

They've also replaced or installed the rear connectors for other customers upon request, and the removable connector with threaded ring is slated as a permanent replacement sometime mid-year.

You may well be right about the position of the welded joint, but it really doesn't make much difference - it had no place in such a position and it failed. However, far from readily replacing the component with a better design, SMI insisted that the design was sound and this was the first time they had ever come across a failure. Only when the customer stood his ground did they supply the military specification model which was properly designed. This isn't just secondhand - I also spoke to them.

On the subject of the Prism, another design aspect that I'm not keen on is the exposed metal pipes with even more exposed union joints. I don't know of one failing but it certainly looks like a weak point.

But as I said in my original post, I would still be happy to own and dive a Prism.