Primary donate in UK ice-cold water

[Jacob BV]

Primary Donate seems so easy: I grab the longhose reg I'm breathing from and thrust it towards the other diver with my right hand and scoop up my backup on the necklace for me to breathe. Simples.

But... I cannot remember what it was like the first time I did this all those years ago. Subsequent donates were after much practice.

I have also seen within BSAC many people without PD training doing it best case unoptimally to worst case in ways that would be unsafe. I totally agree with Wibble, it can seem a simple skill, but there are enough nuances in the kit set up and technique that can get in the way. And the biggest thing for BSAC divers (or anyone who learnt SCUBA secondary donate) is that the first few times they see an out of gas signal there is quite the pause as they fight their muscle memory and need to think what to do.

I joined my local club and enrolled on this trip, telling the group leader my equipment configuration exactly before agreeing. The trip was a bit badly planned and many dropped out, so we ended up with only two qualified and non-instructing divers, me and another person. All other instructors were occupied with trainees who were doing their first ever open water in life.

You're situation is a common one. Some personal friction with I assume an older diver who has dived for a long time, with you a newer member/diver with a kit configuration that people can be resistant to. I would just not rise to the personal stuff, smile and wave. When diving with people who are resistant just dive secondary donate but still with the hog loop - just get an AS clip and clip the long hose to this on the right shoulder d ring, then breath from the bungeed short hose. Once they have dived with you a while and trust you teach about primary donate before being kitted up. The policy from BSAC is very clear that a) you need to have proof of PD training (if you do email BSAC and they will award you a BSAC PD certificate that might go down better in your club), and b) the policy says you have a duty of care to explain this method not just in the buddy check you have to explain the method before kitting up, in a budy check, and even in the water.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

I joined my local club and enrolled on this trip, telling the group leader my equipment configuration exactly before agreeing... All other instructors were occupied with trainees who were doing their first ever open water in life.

... buddying with her friend instead (an OW trainee) and refused to help me gear up - I usually needed someone to help me clip up my drysuit rings ... My LP hose then disconnected from my long hose second stage - something I did not anticipate as I have inspected this connection part at least 5 times before this dive to ensure nothing went wrong...

...this person told other instructors she felt unsecure with them compass navigation skills. I recently watched the Flowstate Diver's series on this skill and immediately show them Flowstate's video on compass navigation. Instead of watching they used my phone to click into my Youtube's browsing history, which consisted of almost 70% scuba skill and gear configuration videos... and asked if "I learnt scuba diving with Youtube".

You need to understand the other party too. You joined a university club, with volunteer instructors who themselves might not be the best divers or who need to follow course materials to the letter to avoid liability. If they are employed by the university, their real jobs are at risk. They are trying to get a number of students through a course, on a budget, in their spare time and clearly were low on numbers. So it was a very stressful situation.

Meanwhile someone very eager who might have learned how to dive from YouTube shows up, possibly with loads of untested, new or freshly purchased gear, possibly with little experience and looking a bit nervous, tries to talk to other trainees how things are done contrary to what the instructors might be teaching.

You might come across as someone very opinionated, yet your gear is broken (Disconnected LP hose? Really? Can't tighten it on the boat in 2 minutes? Why did you inspect it 5 times?), you clearly don't have much drysuit experience (Can't kit up by yourself? Need help to put on drygloves?) and might or might not be trained in a critical skill. There might have been some boat or quarry drama too with new gear.

I would jump in with you but I like to collect instabuddy stories - I already have "Mr Bean goes diving" and "The cardiac arrest", always wonder what the next highlight in my collection will be . Your fellow club members may not be into collecting stories.

 

[TrimixToo]

I scanned the posts trying to find this point, and may have missed it. Sorry, if so.

When the need to donate occurs, you are in *water*. By definition, if you can move, its temperature is above the freezing point in fresh water, and edge cases aside likely above it in salt as well (I have had two dives in slushy 28F salt water and they were quite enough!).

If the reg you are breathing from isn't frozen, neither is the other one.

In the single instance I have ever had of a reg freezing during a dive, I switched regs for a few minutes and tried the first again before aborting the dive (I also had stages). The first had thawed and I went back to it, continuing the remainder of the dive without incident. It had never frozen before and never did again. Water temp was about 41F.

Back into my cave.

 

[L2m]

You might come across as someone very opinionated, yet your gear is broken (Disconnected LP hose? Really? Can't tighten it on the boat in 2 minutes? Why did you inspect it 5 times?), you clearly don't have much drysuit experience (Can't kit up by yourself? Need help to put on drygloves?)

I have no explanation to the disconnected LP hose, it was completely my fault and I should have inspected the o-ring inside the hose as well not just the second stage. As for drysuit, I don't understand how you interpret my word of "being unable to kit up" - I am new to dryglove rings and have not mastered the trick of putting on these rings myself, but I don't see it a risk as if I cannot really find a way to put on the drygloves, I can always abort a dive. I also think if you use a back entry drysuit you will always need someone to help you "kit up", unless you're an octopus and could do the back zip yourself.

They are trying to get a number of students through a course, on a budget, in their spare time and clearly were low on numbers. So it was a very stressful situation.

They could simply refuse me saying they could not accommodate me. I have clearly communicated with them my diving experience, my equipment condition and what I do and do not need, and that I'm happy to wait until next trip if this trip was too busy for instructors. It is their choice to say "yes you're absolutely welcome to come".

Meanwhile someone very eager who might have learned how to dive from YouTube shows up

Ah, I now understand where it all came from. So even if I paid thounsands of hours in shallow pool, deep pool and open water, with my buddy constantly practicing and refining skills, with every dive ended up with our undersuits drenched in sweat, and eventually with us successfully completing a difficult diving course and being signed off with a certification saying we have done every skill with these equipment configuration - in the UK we are not allowed to discuss YouTube scuba diving videos even once in the public, or we're trolled as YouTube divers. I think I shall contact PADI, GUE, Mares and SDI to withdraw all my existing qualifications and start calling myself a YTB-certified diver.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

I have no explanation to the disconnected LP hose, it was completely my fault and I should have inspected the o-ring inside the hose as well not just the second stage. As for drysuit, I don't understand how you interpret my word of "being unable to kit up" - I am new to dryglove rings and have not mastered the trick of putting on these rings myself, but I don't see it a risk as if I cannot really find a way to put on the drygloves, I can always abort a dive. I also think if you use a back entry drysuit you will always need someone to help you "kit up", unless you're an octopus and could do the back zip yourself.


They could simply refuse me saying they could not accommodate me. I have clearly communicated with them my diving experience, my equipment condition and what I do and do not need, and that I'm happy to wait until next trip if this trip was too busy for instructors. It is their choice to say "yes you're absolutely welcome to come".

Ah, I now understand where it all came from. So even if I paid thounsands of hours in shallow pool, deep pool and open water, with my buddy constantly practicing and refining skills, with every dive ended up with our undersuits drenched in sweat, and eventually with us successfully completing a difficult diving course and being signed off with a certification saying we have done every skill with these equipment configuration - in the UK we are not allowed to discuss YouTube scuba diving videos even once in the public, or we're trolled as YouTube divers. I think I shall contact PADI, GUE, Mares and SDI to withdraw all my existing qualifications and start calling myself a YTB-certified diver.

I'm not implying that's what happened - I was trying to point out that perception matters. The other divers on the boat might not know your dive history or skills. All they see are small snapshots of you within last few hours and it's really easy to make a mental shortcut based on broken gear, a bit of drysuit discomfort and just being too much into trim. They might not be nasty, they just perceive things differently.

 

[Rich1280]

If I may be a touch blunt, some of your club sound like idiots.
There are good and bad clubs out there, or more often some are a better fit than others at this point in your diving development. More specifically, taking someone's phone and shooting into the history then playingit up is not appropriate behaviour, and I'm comfortable enough they'd be in no uncertain state in my view on their behaviour, probably resulting in a club suspension if they did it to me. But I'm well established in my club and happy enough to upset people if I need to.
I'm going to guess you're not English first language being from China, and in a northern English bsac club. I'd say the behaviour you're describing is bullying. I'd suggest it's pushing on being in breach of bsac Code of Conduct point 2 i, Edward might have a view as Chair. A new member presents, describes other awards and the club membership is disparaging.
From what you are saying you gave them an option on your attendance, they agreed it and off you went. My suggestion at this point is that this club is not for you.
Unfortunately, put it down to experience and move in. Maybe in bsac, maybe out. Other clubs are better at fitting what you're looking for. The UK GUE scene is generally pretty welcoming and hopefully you'll find some buddies there.
Good luck.
Rich

 

[ofg-1]

You know, as a native Floridian, I am trying to understand what type of childhood trauma, brain injury, drunken stupor, or other mental lapse that would make you want to get into freezing water of your own free will. Is someone threatening you? If you just want to have some type of sadomasochistic experience, go and marry an adult entertainer.

 

[grf88]

You know, as a native Floridian, I am trying to understand what type of childhood trauma, brain injury, drunken stupor, or other mental lapse that would make you want to get into freezing water of your own free will. Is someone threatening you? If you just want to have some type of sadomasochistic experience, go and marry an adult entertainer.

How many relatively intact wooden schooners do you have down your way.

 

[L2m]

Last year I refused to go in with a diver who was primary donate configured as they couldn’t provide evidence of PD training. Like you they had watched YouTube videos. If something had gone wrong my insurance would have been void.

If I may be a touch blunt, some of your club sound like idiots.
There are good and bad clubs out there, or more often some are a better fit than others at this point in your diving development. More specifically, taking someone's phone and shooting into the history then playingit up is not appropriate behaviour, and I'm comfortable enough they'd be in no uncertain state in my view on their behaviour, probably resulting in a club suspension if they did it to me. But I'm well established in my club and happy enough to upset people if I need to.
I'm going to guess you're not English first language being from China, and in a northern English bsac club. I'd say the behaviour you're describing is bullying. I'd suggest it's pushing on being in breach of bsac Code of Conduct point 2 i, Edward might have a view as Chair. A new member presents, describes other awards and the club membership is disparaging.
From what you are saying you gave them an option on your attendance, they agreed it and off you went. My suggestion at this point is that this club is not for you.
Unfortunately, put it down to experience and move in. Maybe in bsac, maybe out. Other clubs are better at fitting what you're looking for. The UK GUE scene is generally pretty welcoming and hopefully you'll find some buddies there.
Good luck.
Rich

Thanks Rich. I think I'll not push it further as I could always dive with some other local divers, and I don't want to accidentally hurt other volunteers in the club who has helped the club and the local neighbourhood it supports a lot - many members in this neighbourhood have been deprived of scuba diving training for years ever since Covid. I think this is just between me and some certain club members over simple and stupid matters like which regulator to donate and maybe keeping a little friendly social distance is enough until I have solidly re-developed my skills specifically in the cold UK environment.

 

[L2m]

You know, as a native Floridian, I am trying to understand what type of childhood trauma, brain injury, drunken stupor, or other mental lapse that would make you want to get into freezing water of your own free will. Is someone threatening you? If you just want to have some type of sadomasochistic experience, go and marry an adult entertainer.

No damage to my CNS at all! I'm living in the UK for the next couple of years and it just happens to have cold water. There is no way to terraform UK into like the sub-tropical climate of Florida and a ticket to there on its own costs the same as 1-2 weekend dive trips in the UK.