Preparing for fundamentals / intro to tech

[berndo]

But he bought some of those little short steel 80s and the bands were way off, his trim and buoyancy were horrible, and he was adamant he wanted to do the class in doubles.

You can have that with euro tanks too. With double 10s for example. They're too short and leave you super top heavy... and yeah, when you start out with very large tanks, you start the dive heavy and buoyancy is more diffcult for a beginner. With 'normal' size doubles (for beginners) though I don't see any issue... if you can't do xyz in doubles you probably can't do it with a single tank either.

 

[rddvet]

. if you can't do xyz in doubles you probably can't do it with a single tank either.

That was this guy

 

[PfcAJ]

It is just reaching back and turning a knob without having to focus on it. It's 3 valves, dude, it is logical indeed. Most people with more than 5 brains cells can figure out that you wanna find the leak and avoid losing more gas than you need to, without needing a philosophy. There aren't that many ways to do that having 3 valves.
The guys who made up the gue stuff weren't exactly Einstein or the second comming of Jesus, ... or L. Ron even thought you guys seem to think so.

What I answered to is the claim that the OP should try to practice anything before they do a class because they would be building bad habits... which I think is laughable... but a standard gue talking point.

do you even know what the GUE valve drill is? Without going to look it up. Seems like you don’t.

Sheck Exley (of all people) came damn close to drowning due to a mismanaged valve closure. Two dudes at Wayne’s World drowned due to a mismanaged valve closure. I would make a solid wager that there have been plenty of close calls due to mismanaged valves.

We’re searching for the best way to do things. Not just “a” way to do it.

 

[Imla]

do you even know what the GUE valve drill is? Without going to look it up. Seems like you don’t.

Sheck Exley (of all people) came damn close to drowning due to a mismanaged valve closure. Two dudes at Wayne’s World drowned due to a mismanaged valve closure. I would make a solid wager that there have been plenty of close calls due to mismanaged valves.

We’re searching for the best way to do things. Not just “a” way to do it.

Also... GUE is about predictability. If everybody in a team knows the standard SOP for manipulating a valve, communicating a failure, problemsolving and fixing it is easier to communicate and decide whether a dive can continue or not. Predictability and standardisation are keys to managing any high risk environments.

While "practicing" reaching valves and making sure you can actually reach them is nice, it is nice to keep in mind that Fundamentals is a class to LEARN the fundamentals. The core of the class is predictable procedures and behaviour through a GUE team. The class is made with the end (GUE tech/cave) in mind.
In all classes in GUE, the expected prerequisites for the class is listed. Knowing anything beyond that is the instructors job to teach you. You are not expected to know GUEs procedure for manipulating valves as that is the instructors job to teach you. A valve drill is the basis that the failure protocols are based upon in cave/tech. In much the same way a pilot has predictable/SOP checklists for pre/post flights, GUE is also centred around SOPs. These help to reduce the impact of human factors and are proven (SOPS are, not nessesarily GUEs) ways to mitigate risk/severity of consequense.

 

[berndo]

do you even know what the GUE valve drill is? Without going to look it up. Seems like you don’t.

Yes, I dove with some of your bretheren, I have youtube and I can read. Get over yourself. It's 3 valves.

I'm kidding, of course I don't know... how could I know, I haven't studied the art of valve management it under a gue instructor.

The point I made was that the OP can practice whatever they want without any downsides... going diving and spending time in the water is what makes a good diver and you can learn new stuff.

Two dudes at Wayne’s World drowned due to a mismanaged valve closure.

I get it, if they only had been gue trained, it wouldn't have happened... or if they had any better training.

We’re searching for the best way to do things.

That quote could literally be from a cult... I would make a solid wager that there have been plenty of cults who used that phrase.

 

[PfcAJ]

Yes, I dove with some of your bretheren, I have youtube and I can read. Get over yourself. It's 3 valves.

I'm kidding, of course I don't know... how could I know, I haven't studied the art of valve management it under a gue instructor.

The point I made was that the OP can practice whatever they want without any downsides... going diving and spending time in the water is what makes a good diver and you can learn new stuff.


I get it, if they only had been gue trained, it wouldn't have happened... or if they had any better training.


That quote could literally be from a cult... I would make a solid wager that there have been plenty of cults who used that phrase.

Yes, if they had better training it might not have happened. Correct.

That’s the idea with training. It’s to get better so you don’t have issues or can correct them.

I don’t understand the mindset of not wanting to do things well. Makes no sense to me.

 

[CptTightPants21]

How and when did somebody die because they didn't close a valve the gue way?

Honestly, lots of people. It looks so easy and yet people routinely drown with a full tank(s) on their back. As AJ mentioned earlier, the GUE procedure is a streamlined and bulletproof methodology to correctly identify and fix, if possible, a regulator/manifold malfunction. It is a shame that the GUE valve drill procedure hasn't been adopted by other agencies because it really is a thing of simplistic beauty.

It is just reaching back and turning a knob without having to focus on it. It's 3 valves, dude, it is logical indeed. Most people with more than 5 brains cells can figure out that you wanna find the leak and avoid losing more gas than you need to, without needing a philosophy. There aren't that many ways to do that having 3 valves.
The guys who made up the gue stuff weren't exactly Einstein or the second comming of Jesus, ... or L. Ron even thought you guys seem to think so.

The level of ignorance in this statement. You might as well be saying that driving is just pushing a pedal and turning a wheel. Driving entails a lot more nuance than just pushing a pedal. In the event of a failure, if you want to be a monkey and just turn a valve and hope for the best, odds are you will make it to the surface. In the event of a failure, you want to know what happened, how to address the situation, and assess the current level of risk/danger you are in, follow the GUE procedure.

 

[berndo]

I don’t understand the mindset of not wanting to do things well. Makes no sense to me.

Nobody said anything to the contrary. It's just that the gue fanboys think gue is the be all and all... which it is not... they do good marketing and a LOT of it. The gue fanboys are like the Tesla and Apple fanboys. They also repeat the marketing stuff over and over again...

 

[CptTightPants21]

If you want to so some practice that involves skills work you can practice turning the right post off, breathing down the regulator, then turning the valve back on 100%. Do the same for the octo.

There are more steps and other things that can be done, but this is a baseline technique where you can get some experience/practice without creating any bad habits.

 

[berndo]

The level of ignorance in this statement. You might as well be saying that driving is just pushing a pedal and turning a wheel. Driving entails a lot more nuance than just pushing a pedal.

Silly comparison. Driving, especially manual, is much more difficult than diving.

... follow the GUE procedure.

Yeah, and nobody outside of gue has figured out what to do is case of a leak... and nobody has build a car as good as a Tesla.