Preparing for fundamentals / intro to tech

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I am comfortable in the water. Otherwise I wouldn't consider moving into tec :wink: The lakes where I dive are mostly silty so I know I can fin without stirring up. My finning may not be perfect but it's pretty good for a recreational diver. I do dive in a drysuit and with a bp&w. I've bought my own regs early this summer with a long hose setup, so I'm getting used to that. I'm certainly not doing things perfectly (hence the course) but practicing S drills or switching masks has made me much more comfortable and better at it (surprise surprise). So I see no harm in it even if I need to change a few things later. I'm able to learn and make adjustments to my skiing after doing that for 30 years so I think I can handle adjustments to my diving :wink: I'm not practicing things like mask clearing because I have issues with it but for it to become an absolute non issue, in trim, without changes to my buoyancy. How is that a bad thing? Strange I need to say this... Again, I certainly don't do things perfectly and am very much looking forward to getting tipps and tricks for mastering these various skills.

The bit about the course material is a good pointer. I will ask about it. Thanks.

Regarding doubles, as I said, I'll try them soon. I'm still curious to hear thoughts on doing fundies or intro to tec (see, it's not strictly about GUE...) in single backmount vs doubles. I will obviously have more experience with a single cylinder and most of my diving, for now at least, is in that configuration. If and when I do ANDP or whatever route I choose, doubles will become a necessity, however. So it's kind of present vs future... Not sure.
Your attitude going in seems good. Be confident in your comfort in the water, but even more confident that you're ready to learn and that you'll be open-minded. I had many years and certs as a tech diver. I still learned some things i wasn't doing well enough and learned some things I was taught wrong. I should clarify the "wrong". Some of the things I was doing "wrong" were perfectly fine, but the protocol that GUE employs was better because it avoided further complications. My OOA is a good example. I thought I was dealing with my light cord pretty well and I was. But the way I was taught in fundies was better and completely stopped the small chance of entangling my light cord with my long hose.

As for doubles, it depends on when you take your class and what you're goal is. If you want to dive doubles long term, then start learning them way before the class. Take a gue or other flavor of intro to doubles. Or find a very good mentor. But you have to be careful because alot of what my mentor initially taught me wasn't ideal and I had no clue. The GUE class would teach you the same things fundies will (in regards to doubles). I thought I knew how to adjust my bp/w well. I learned the parts I was missing in fundies.
One more question, as I think about it: if you could take the class with the same instructor, would it matter whether you take it under GUE or TDI? (considering my goals as stated above)
Depends on the instructor. Kelvin Davidson at 3D in mexico was an instructor trainer for IANTD and I think TDI for many years before adding GUE instructor to his resume. He had GUE training and took part in GUE projects eventhough he taught for opposing agencies. He has always taught his classes very similarly to GUE, with the same exceptionally high standards. GUE gives him more standardization to his classes, but he is awesome because he sees things from both a GUE and a non-GUE viewpoint. If I took a fundies type course from him I could care less if it was GUE or not because I will learn the same things. The pro to fundies is I can then move into other GUE courses or be prepped for non-GUE tech courses. If you do intro to tech via somebody like TDI you'd eventually have to take fundies if you want to pursue GUE classes. For me, I was told GUE is a cult for many many years and I avoided them because we still had a lot of the big headed guys around. Now years later I wish I'd started with fundies, regardless of whether I was going to pursue GUE courses or not. My point about someone like Kelvin is yes, his class is going to be awesome regardless of agency. But he is not the norm, and sludging through swaths of instructors trying to find someone with his mindset and skillset is not easy. I got alot of bad instruction from people who were highly regarded and highly recommended before I met Kelvin and learned what excpetional instruction is. Ken Sallot is another one that I put in that category and he's here on SB. He has some GUE training and his instruction is top-notch and I would not hesitate for someone to do an intro to tech style class with him. I have never seen Capt Jim Wyatt's intro type class, so can't comment on what/how he teaches. But he puts out consistently good students. If someone wanted a non-GUE intro style class, he's another I wouldn't hesitate to recommend. But I only know of these people through my experience in cave diving. If I was an OW diver I would have no clue, and the standardization of GUE would decrease my chances of choosing crappy instruction (I won't say eliminate because not all GUE instructors are perfect).
 
As for doubles, it depends on when you take your class and what you're goal is. If you want to dive doubles long term, then start learning them way before the class. Take a gue or other flavor of intro to doubles. Or find a very good mentor. But you have to be careful because alot of what my mentor initially taught me wasn't ideal and I had no clue. The GUE class would teach you the same things fundies will (in regards to doubles). I thought I knew how to adjust my bp/w well. I learned the parts I was missing in fundies.
I'm trying doubles with the same instructor. So that should eliminate the risk you mention.
As for my diving, well, I don't see the point of diving doubles just for the sake of it. When diving recreationally, I guess I will continue to dive a regular 12l single cylinder. I don't see why I should bother lugging around a double 12 for that purpose. However, when moving into tec properly and then when doing tec dives, yes, I will be diving doubles (assuming I like it and decide to go down that path; if I don't I'll try sidemount). The way I see it, the tanks just as any other equipment are a tool for the job. I see no point in doing a 30m leasurely no deco dive in doubles. Unless for training purposes I guess.
 
I don't see why I should bother lugging around a double 12 for that purpose.
There are also D7s and D8.5s. Since you can't reach your valves now it would make a lot of sense to get doubles and generally it makes little sense to do any kind of intro to tec training an a single tank set up... but it sounds like you've made your mind up and really are looking for confirmation.

I see no point in doing a 30m leasurely no deco dive in doubles. Unless for training purposes I guess.
Weird statement.
 
There are also D7s and D8.5s. Since you can't reach your valves now it would make a lot of sense to get doubles and generally it makes little sense to do any kind of intro to tec training an a single tank set up... but it sounds like you've made your mind up and really are looking for confirmation.
Nope, not at all. I came here asking a question. I'm just explaining my thoughts and happy to hear arguments either way.
I agree on D8,5 (or D10 for that matter). D7 makes little sense imo. But that's just for local diving which would qualify as "training purposes" to me. I don't see myself renting double anything tanks on vacation (for recreational diving). Maybe I should have specified the distinction I make.
Weird statement.
Care to explain? What's wrong about choosing tanks depending on the dive?
 
I came here asking a question.
Have you thought about a doubles primer before fundies? I probably should have taken one myself before I took fundies as it would have helped set me on the right track.
 
At least one "Well Known" cave instructor has been known to sell cave instructor ratings for $1,500.00.
And the big problem is that as a entry level tech/cave diver you don’t know who is good and who is just full it with good advertising. Or even that these kind of ‘instructors’ exist. That is one thing that scubaboard can help with avoiding.
 
Have you thought about a doubles primer before fundies? I probably should have taken one myself before I took fundies as it would have helped set me on the right track.
Hm, no I haven't. To be honest, I didn't know this was a thing. I'd be hesitant to do that though. Another expensive course... If I decide to go with doubles, I will buy the gear and have it set up correctly. So that part is taken care of. The rest I feel like I might be able to solve with practice. Well, I will see how the test dive goes and take it from there. Thanks for the pointer though!
 
Btw I’d not take fundies in a configuration you are not comfortable with.

I literally had doubles for the first time when I did fundies, and just the fact that the dump wasn’t at the same place caused me issues.

IMHO, you don’t want to spend too many brain cells during the class to just get used to a new config.

If you plan to use doubles and never use them before maybe do a primer and get a set from a friend to get used to the equipment?
 
, I will buy the gear and have it set up correctly. So that part is taken care of. The rest I feel like I might be able to solve with practice. Well, I will see how the test dive goes and take it from there. Thanks for the pointer though!
That is not ideal. Years down the road you will wish you understood how to properly set up a bp/w. Just having it set up for you by someone doesnt teach that and trying to figure it out yourself you will miss key points. I was taught doubles by a mentor who just set it up for me and taught me how to dive them. I read online and talked to people and over the years thought I knew all about properly setting up a bp/w. But as you get further in training you learn that when you add stages if you’re not setup properly they hang wrong. When you go to ccr and your unit trims different than doubles you need to adjust it. Its true that anybody can learn to dive doubles on their own. But learning the little tips and tricks that aren’t in a book or on the internet is very helpful and will benefit you long term if you learn them early. A well trained mentor (unlike mine) or a class can be very beneficial.
 

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