Preparing for fundamentals / intro to tech

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Hm, no I haven't. To be honest, I didn't know this was a thing. I'd be hesitant to do that though. Another expensive course... If I decide to go with doubles, I will buy the gear and have it set up correctly. So that part is taken care of. The rest I feel like I might be able to solve with practice. Well, I will see how the test dive goes and take it from there. Thanks for the pointer though!

I honestly don't know how much a primer costs. My understanding is it is just a day. Certainly not as expensive as fundies, but likely more than the run of the mill con ed course that doesn't teach you much of anything. This is more advice for my younger self. After my crappy OW course, I wish I took fundies in a single tank, get a provisional, work to a rec pass. Take the doubles primer to set me up for practicing/earning/testing for a tech pass. Then onto T1. That's it. While T1 is a large investment in time and money, all the con ed courses that did nothing for me cost more and took more time. I kept trying to get a little more, and the only path was "the next path." Oh how the agencies loved my naivete.

 

[KevinNM]

I'm trying doubles now and the class is not before spring. Plenty of time to get used to it. I never said fundies was tomorrow

Don’t practice valve drills unless you know the GUE valve drill. Being really good at doing it wrong is not usually helpful. If you are a GUE member there is a lot of stuff you can download…

 

[jrgregory]

I'm trying doubles now and the class is not before spring. Plenty of time to get used to it. I never said fundies was tomorrow

I just got back from Fundies two days ago (had an great experience, will write up a course report soon). I did it in a single tank / wetsuit because I have had no experience in doubles or drysuit, and as others have said Fundies is not the place to learn new equipment configs - you are plenty task-loaded as it is.

That being said, I think the answer depends on how comfortable you feel in the water in doubles by the time you take it - this should be a game-time decision. The point of Fundies is all about learning, and taking advantage of the tremendous skill and experience there to help you. If you are feel comfortable in doubles by class time and plan to dive doubles when you get back, it would be a real shame to miss out on all that feedback and learning opportunity in what will end up being your preferred configuration.

Based on your expectation that you will feel comfortable, I'd lean toward going for doubles in Fundies and getting that extra learning - but again you can change your mind at any time.

 

[rddvet]

but again you can change your mind at any time.

Exactly. A guy in my class was told by the instructor to ditch the doubles and go back to single tank after day 1 because the dude clearly had no business being in doubles. He was using class to try to learn them

 

[berndo]

A guy in my class was told by the instructor to ditch the doubles and go back to single tank after day 1 because the dude clearly had no business being in doubles. He was using class to try to learn them

I don't understand this. The only difference between double and a single tank is that there is another tank and that reaching the valves is easier. What is there to learn? Seriously.

Hight of the tanks, weight placement and proper adjustment of the harness you have to do for doubles as well as for a single tank setup. The whole idea of a doubles class seems silly to me. Soon there will be a tie your shoes class, a ride your bicycle class and a boil potatoes class... and some guy will build a philosophy around it...

Don’t practice valve drills unless you know the GUE valve drill.

I really not try to go after people, but stuff like this just make no sense... how do people don't see that this makes no sense? Think about it for 2 min without thinking about some nonsense some instructor or website told you. Why should someone not try to practice to close a valve and switch a reg? Most people don't need hand holding and a philosophy to close a valve and switch a reg.

Being really good at doing it wrong is not usually helpful.

Closing a valve the 'wrong way'...
If I didn't know gue people are serious about this, I'd think this is satire. It's crazy... stuff like this makes it seem like a cult... I guess you don't see it when you're in too deep.

 

[jrgregory]

Single-tank valve drill is just confirming you can reach and slightly turn your one valve.
Doubles valve drill is fully closing and reopening three different valves (right, isolator, and left) in a specific sequence that ensures you always have access to gas during the drill. Not saying its crazy complex, but there are 12 discrete steps.

The point of drills is to develop automatic behaviors.
By getting familiar and creating automatic actions for all three valves and how they interact, you can deal with any possible valve failure that would occur.
By all doing the drills the exact same way, every time, you can better support your team and develop muscle memory.

I think the key to understanding GUE is knowing that most protocols were born of someone (or many people) dying in a cave because they were stressed by a failure and didn't have the right automatic reaction.
Is that situation applicable to you? Maybe not right now, and maybe never. But divers who tend toward GUE are people who find the standardization and emphasis on team more helpful than the sacrifice of "individualism".

 

[berndo]

I think the key to understanding GUE is knowing that most protocols were born of someone (or many people) dying in a cave because they were stressed by a failure and didn't have the right automatic reaction.

How and when did somebody die because they didn't close a valve the gue way?

The point of drills is to develop automatic behaviors.

Yeah, it's called training... it has nothing to do with anything gue.

 

[PfcAJ]

How and when did somebody die because they didn't close a valve the gue way?


Yeah, it's called training... it has nothing to do with anything gue.

The determining factor on if something is a good idea or not is not “death”. The idea here is to have a common method that everyone is familiar with.

The GUE valve drill does a few things:

One, it is a drill. A structured drill designed to demonstrate the ability not only to manipulate the valves, but also to communicate, not lose track of your buddy/line/bouyancy, and purposefully switch from reg to reg.

It is also a logical/methodical method to identify where the leak is coming from if you are unsure. It is the way it is because of this. It’s not just “reach back and turn a knob”. The sequence is also a problem solving exercise.

 

[rddvet]

I don't understand this. The only difference between double and a single tank is that there is another tank and that reaching the valves is easier. What is there to learn? Seriously.

I was simplifying it a little bit. The guy was a general cluster. He "teaches" deco classes and peak perofrmance buoyancy, but had no clue how to be anything other than vetrical and had no clue how to use a butt dump (and could barely understand the principle). He primarily dove single tanks, rarely double tanks. But he bought some of those little short steel 80s and the bands were way off, his trim and buoyancy were horrible, and he was adamant he wanted to do the class in doubles. It was clear from day 1 there was zero chance he'd come close to passing the class. The instructor did his best to explain to the guy it wasn't the best time to learn doubles and he would get much more out of the class diving a single tank since that's what he was comfortable in. The instructor also tried explaining that those little 80s are notorious for trimming poorly unless you're really short. So rather than listening to the instructor and going back to his single tank, he pulled out a pair of 85s. There was zero improvement. He finally had to basically be told to just dive a single tank. The guy was such a disaster and could have been so detrimental to the class that he had to be pulled out of the group and get one on one coaching on the basics of buoyancy and wing management. He hoenstly should have just been removed from class on day 1, but obviously that's not the easiest thing for an instructor to manage.
Alot of it fell into the category of the guy not being able to or wanting to see how much work he needed since he "had tech certs" and choosing to not listen to the instructor's guidance. The class learned a lesson in how to deal with a dangerous teammate. Obviously the class is open to all skills levels, but regardless you need to be open minded to the instructor's advice. His hubris didn't allow that

 

[berndo]

It is also a logical/methodical method to identify where the leak is coming from if you are unsure. It is the way it is because of this. It’s not just “reach back and turn a knob”. The sequence is also a problem solving exercise.

It is just reaching back and turning a knob without having to focus on it. It's 3 valves, dude, it is logical indeed. Most people with more than 5 brains cells can figure out that you wanna find the leak and avoid losing more gas than you need to, without needing a philosophy. There aren't that many ways to do that having 3 valves.
The guys who made up the gue stuff weren't exactly Einstein or the second comming of Jesus, ... or L. Ron even thought you guys seem to think so.

What I answered to is the claim that the OP should try to practice anything before they do a class because they would be building bad habits... which I think is laughable... but a standard gue talking point.