Preparing for fundamentals / intro to tech

[crofrog]

As a new diver (about 80 dives in 3 years), I consulted with my GUE-F instructor about the class. He suggested that I do GUE-F in doubles -- my first experience with doubles. I got a provisional tech pass. Despite the horrid experience, I went back to finish and get the pass so that I could continue with my GUE training. Because, as former military, I thought the GUE philosophy was awesome. At least the written GUE philosophy was awesome. The actual GUE attitude, in person, was another matter entirely. Everything bad that everyone was saying about GUE was true, and I personally experienced it.

Round 2 of GUE-F was even more horrid than the initial experience, so I walked away from GUE without finishing. There was no instruction, it was just hazing.

I got another 1,000 dives under my belt and went on through tech/full cave with another agency.

Who was it with and when was this?

 

[berndo]

One more question, as I think about it: if you could take the class with the same instructor, would it matter whether you take it under GUE or TDI? (considering my goals as stated above)

Any decent instructor can teach you basic skills. There is nothing difficult about scuba diving. The trim and reaching valves issues are typical beginner issues that are easily fixed. Likely your buoyancy and fin kicking need work too since at your dive it's usually lacking. The reason gue is seen as special and why the followers are so full of themselves is that they have the best marketing and zeoleas fans online that have no or next to no experience with any other training outside the gue eco system (who aims to separate them form the greater dive community). They will wheel out bad examples (of which there are enough) to basically smear all other agencies and instructors (that how they even do it in the fundi book). That was the marketing strategy from the get go... and it works well on beginners.
The main goal of gue is to get more money out of customers... and creating hardcore fans, and creating a story of superiority is the way to do it. (They descibe it in the fundies book)
The part of building bad habits as a beginner is a gue truism something the followers heard and just repeat... they all do that, especially the noobs, but it's of course nonsense, it's easy to learn new stuff in scuba diving. Comparend to climbing, trail mountain biking, and other outdoor sports, scuba is very easy to learn and requires virtually no fitness level, much skill or knowledge. By telling people an entry level class is hard is a way to boost their ego.
Just asked them for specifics about what's so hard and you'll never get an answer.
What makes you better is diving alot and having solid basics which you build by putting in hours... not by buying into an american new age scuba religion.

 

[berndo]

Who was it with and when was this?

Everytime you were asked about you're experience level you cried about it being 'ad hominem'.

 

[jborg]

One more question, as I think about it: if you could take the class with the same instructor, would it matter whether you take it under GUE or TDI? (considering my goals as stated above)

Given what you said (likely not looking for any further GUE training) I can't see that it matters, other than if you get some TDI recognition that is an advantage for additional TDI training. It's often repeated that the instructor matters, not the agency. This is true. The only advantage to a GUE instructor is that GUE's QA somewhat reduces the risk of the instructor being clueless. You gain that advantage even if you take a TDI class with that person.

 

[Doc Harry]

One more question, as I think about it: if you could take the class with the same instructor, would it matter whether you take it under GUE or TDI? (considering my goals as stated above)

If GUE instructors have changed their attitudes since I took GUE-F, then I would give GUE another try -- if I were young again.

 

[Doc Harry]

Who was it with and when was this?

I have already publicly called out this instructor by name in other threads.

He also owned a dive shop, and ripped me off a couple thousand dollars as I started buying dive gear (e.g., drysuit) to be more compliant with GUE standardization. That's a whole other story.

 

[jborg]

And, IIRC, they are no longer with GUE since many years.

As mentioned, it's the instructor, not the agency. I don't doubt that GUE had and probably still has some asshat instructors. TDI certainly has at least one clueless instructor and probably its share of asshats. Both will have some awesome instructors, too.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

At least one "Well Known" cave instructor has been known to sell cave instructor ratings for $1,500.00.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at taking an entry level tech class (either with GUE or TDI). I want to enhance my skills, get them to be precise and reliable. All of that for the sake of being a better diver, because I'm a perfectionist and in prepartion for actually venturing into tech. Next steps would be some intro to decompression (ANDP I'm thinking) and down the road possibly testing if cave is something I'm interested in and cut out for. But that's a more distant possibility.

Now my question is what do you suggest I work on before taking the fundamentals / intro to tec course? What I am doing:

• getting really comfortable at mask clearing (including no mask swim and switching to a backup mask)
• trim & buoyancy (trying to hover still but I'm struggling with that as my trim is not fully perfect but I'm practicing in a single cylinder setup for now)
• DSMB
• anything related to regulator removal & switching (just switching between regs, S drills as well as gas sharing scenarios)
• finning: helicopter turn both sides, backkick (frog kick is what I use anyways, so no need to practice), as well as modified frog kick and modified flutter kick
• what I cannot practice are valve drills as I'm diving a single cylinder (with two valves, but I cannot reach those)

I'm trying doubles soon so might switch my setup which might help with trim. Not sure yet. I don't think I'll aim for a tec pass anyway (seems unrealistic at the first go) so might just stick with single cylinder. Happy to take your recommendations. I will also ask my future instructor the above questions but it doesn't hurt to get some feedback from divers who have taken this class (and instructors who might be reading this).

The best thing you can do is go into class with no assumptions and a completely open mind. Go in there with the assumption that you won't pass the first time and use the class as a massive learning experience. Be a total sponge and look to absorb as much as possible. The complete philosophy is one thing, take it or leave it, but techniques, procedures, and their view point on addressing problems are fantastic.

Going into class with the right mindset is 80% of the battle.

Some techniques you can practice - mark a spot on the platform with a spare light or weight. Have you and your buddy .5 meters above the platform, facing each other with the object in the middle. Look at each other and take turns donating regulators. The person who donated the regulator, picks a direction and you both helicopter turn 90 degrees to go that direction. Turn back facing each other, reset, and stow your gear. Then switch places. If you are doing well, your buoyance won't change more than .5 meters. If you are really don't well, your buoyance won't change and you will still have the object directly in front of you.

As progress, you can add an element or two of task loading while sharing the gas. You can take an item out of your pocket and clip it to your should d-ring, move an item from one d-ring and clip it onto another. You want to get to the point where the s-drill isn't even "main" task, its just another action that was taken while diving and holds no special significance.

Kicks are harder to practice without a mirror, video, and/or an experienced buddy. Back kicking without good trim is almost impossible. Look at youtube videos for proper techniques/how you are supposed to look in the water.

 

[rddvet]

In my experience with GUE-F, my statements are factual.
GUE-F is an audition, not a training course.
There is no teaching new skills, only ridiculing students for skills they haven't already mastered.

Like back kicking into a stiff current while doing OOA drills, and diving with doubles. If you haven't already mastered these skills before GUE-F, then prepare to be ridiculed by the GUE instructors.

I forgot you had a bad experience with Fundies. As we've noted before your experience is not the norm.

We agree about stuff all the time... at least did at one point.

Lol, we do fairly often