Prayer is useless?

[Soggy]

Do not tell me about the fossil record; it contains no interim lifeforms.

You are quite plain and simply WRONG. This is a completely FALSE statement. Per a post a few pages back, have you ever heard of Neanderthals? Or do you believe them to be human in the same sense that we are? What about Australopithicus?

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Some do not require a supernatural being to give their lives meaning or to provide them with knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. Some are able to find meaning and morality on their own.

Based on what? Culture?

Apparently we must all have "our truth" as one poster stated. If we all have "our truth" then who is right when "the truth" needs to be told?

With no standard, there is no right or wrong; only what is temporarily acceptable, or not, by society and its leaders. And that can lead to some horrific situations.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

How is that any different from what you are saying? "There must be a god because I don't have a better explanation."

Because the evidence of physical world we see is described in the Bible: inspired by God, written by men, containing wisdom and information that would not have been possible for so many, over so long a period of time, to have colaborated with each other and weave such a tight and coherent narrative.

As I wrote, there is scientific evidence indicating fossils do not take millions of years to form, that light speed is not necessarily constant (therefore would not have required millions of years to travel distances so that we can see it now) .. to say nothing of the first thing God created is light .. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Soggy]

Because the evidence of physical world we see is described in the Bible: inspired by God, written by men, containing wisdom and information that would not have been possible for so many, over so long a period of time, to have colaborated with each other and weave such a tight and coherent narrative.

So, the Bible is right because over time, it evolved into a collection of stories that are somewhat cohesive? I think you underestimate what man is capable of.

As I wrote, there is scientific evidence indicating fossils do not take millions of years to form, that light speed is not necessarily constant

I'm unaware of those studies? Could you provide me sources? I know of a study that occurred, I believe at Cornell, where photons were passed through a cesium gas and appeared to reach the other side faster than the speed of light, but further examination concluded that the experiment did not violate the rules set forth by relativity.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Is that called a Christian judgement?

No a statement. If life is merely an accident (random as our esteemed barrister .. or is he not a criminal attorney? .. claims) then why should anyone care if Tookie wacks someone during his crime spree, that Jack was a Ripper, that Ted Bundy murdered, that some priests are pedophiles, that Enron collapsed, the husbands cheat on wives and vice versa, etc.

If it's "just happening" then there is no reason for anyone to do anything other that what makes them feel good and tough **** for anyone who does not like it.

If it's "just happening" there is no point in anyone attempting to prove me wrong. What do they care? Sooner or later we'll all be dead and none of us will know the difference. However, it's not "just happening" and there is meaning in life beyond this temporal existance and I have been commanded to share that truth.

 

[Soggy]

With no standard, there is no right or wrong; only what is temporarily acceptable, or not, by society and its leaders. And that can lead to some horrific situations.

Right and wrong can be discovered through the study of ethics. There is no need for god for there to be right and wrong. This is a common and fallacious argument.

But you are right, without a standard, there can be serious problems. Not everyone can be expected to figure out right and wrong on their own. People - rulers, law enforcers, scholars - couple millenia ago knew that, too and composed a serious of stories about an all knowing, all powerful, vengeful deity that would send you to eternal damnation if you did not follow the rules set forth. This, quite literally, put the 'fear of god' into them and kept the peace. It has happened all over the world in all different cultures since the beginning of society. The 'rules' are common sense rules that, without, society would disintegrate. That doesn't mean those rules came from a deity.

At least that is my theory. I know many do not share it and some will be offended by it.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

You are quite plain and simply WRONG. This is a completely FALSE statement. Per a post a few pages back, have you ever heard of Neanderthals? Or do you believe them to be human in the same sense that we are? What about Australopithicus?

Yes, I have heard of Neanderthal .. I have worked with some. Oh, wait, perhaps they were CroMagnon or Piltdown Man or Java Man or ....

I know enough about these alleged "interims" to know that at least one of them was revealed to be a fraud and another is based on only a few skull fragments. I think one was even based on nothing more than a tooth.

Tell me, what programming language are these statements derived from:

If
Then
Else
begin
End
For
Next
while
do
implicit NONE
sub
call
return


My point is, you don't know. Perhaps it's simpler to just make a claim without any supporting structure.

Anyway, back to the interim.

I am not referring to adaptation within a kind. E.g. a bear is a bear whether it's a Polar, Black, Kodiak, Brown, Grizz. Pandas are not bears.

I am talking about one kind morphing into another kind. That is, over time a simple cell became complex became an amphib, became a reptile, became a mammal, became a primate became a human.

Where is the interim form that lied between whales and whatever unrelated life form allegedly gave rise to them? Where is the not-quite a dinosaur, but it's wings are useless so it can't fly and it's useless wings are not even remotely useful legs so it can't run. I guess it will just die. There should be millions of those failures of evolution and they are not being found; instead only fully formed life forms or fragments are being found. And those fragments too frequently yield some incredible new "scientific evidence" for evolution. Give me a break.

Stephen J Gould had no answer or evidence either so he hypothesised punctuated equilibrium.

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Right and wrong can be discovered through the study of ethics. There is no need for god for there to be right and wrong. This is a common and fallacious argument.

But you are right, without a standard, there can be serious problems. Not everyone can be expected to figure out right and wrong on their own. People - rulers, law enforcers, scholars - couple millenia ago knew that, too and composed a serious of stories about an all knowing, all powerful, vengeful deity that would send you to eternal damnation if you did not follow the rules set forth. This, quite literally, put the 'fear of god' into them and kept the peace. It has happened all over the world in all different cultures since the beginning of society. The 'rules' are common sense rules that, without, society would disintegrate. That doesn't mean those rules came from a deity.

At least that is my theory. I know many do not share it and some will be offended by it.

Ethics is not the study of right and wrong. Ethics is a code of behavior. There are many "ethical codes" that many with a sense of right and wrong would find, well, wrong even though it might be ethical. As my former ethics teacher told us: ethics transcends morality, which is cultural. Perhaps he did not truly understand ethics.

I am not talking simply about "a standard" that was dreamed up by man (or woman). I am talking about a standard that transcends culture, ethics, time and space.
Is murder wrong? Well, that all depends how you define murder. Is adultery wrong? That all depends I guess. Is stealing wrong? What is stealing? What culture? Who says? What if someone else says differently later on and it effects you? If there is no objective standard then right and wrong is a free for all.

God is not "vengeful" in the sense you use.

Composed a series of stories? That's funny. Aparrently they all composed their own stories because in some cultures treachery and then murdering the person you befriended was the essence of cool. In others the guests of honor at dinner would be served as the main course. Then there was the culture that sacrificed children.

Which god were they fearing?

This might surprise you but we are not all that different from those less technically adept, but apparently ignorant, cultures. We're just more technically adept. But society is not exactly 'evolving' toward peace and love and all that happiness stuff.
Perhaps it's because we don't need God?

 

[H2Andy]

What an absolutely pointless, meaningless and pitiful existance.

so you're basically saying that you need God b/c otherwise your life
would be pointless, meaningless, and pitiful?

but what if others don't need God for their lives to have a point, meaning, and be full of joy?

can you even entertain that possibility?

i have news for you...

 

[Kim]

so you're basically saying that you need God b/c otherwise your life
would be pointless, meaningless, and pitiful?

No Andy. What he's saying is that your life must really suck! Of course he HAS to say that because if your life doesn't suck really...then he'd be wrong! It's quite clear that the only people who could POSSIBLY have any kind of a decent life basically have to believe what he does. Afterall, what's the point of believing what he does otherwise?
(and what's more he knows all this without having met you I suppose - it's magic!)