Prayer is useless?

[H2Andy]

I never added the life spans, etc. I think though for those who have, it's a bit more than 6000 years old.

for sure less than a million years old, though, right?

 

[MikeFerrara]

how do you think the man who kicked over the stalls on the Temple would
react when he comes into your church and sees the collection platters
being passed around?

i don't think he'd approve.

In most cases I don't think he'd have a problem with it. The ministry has to exist on something. The Bible not only talks about supporting the church but even church members like widows who have no family or other means of support.

 

[H2Andy]

In most cases I don't think he'd have a problem with it.

mike, i think if Jesus saw the collective wealth of your average American church,
he wold be horrified at what could be done with it and isnt being done.

rememer the "sell all you have and give it to the poor" bit?

 

[Green_Manelishi]

ah.... thus abolishing it

tell me, do you operate under the law or under grace?

sounds to me like Jesus did abolish the law





fine, so leave my occupation out of it. you're the one who brought it up.



no, you don't understand the difference. you're talking about evolutionary
biology. i was talking about cosmology. two different things.

if you understood, you would see that the big question is not how life on
earth came about, but how did the unverse in which earth finds itself
came about.

that's the tough one. that's the one no scientist has the answer to.

Fullfill = abolish?

A trick question. Too bad I can't write in the sand while you stand there with a rock. I live under grace but that's no excuse for breaking the law(s).

I brought up your profession only because as a lawyer you are supposed to stick to facts. Or is that truth? Is there a difference? What if my truth is different from your truth? Who's do we then believe? Perhaps the one most close to the facts?

Anyway ....

I do understand the diff between cosmology and biology. Without the physical there would be no world for the biological. So, the physical "just happened" (those untestable, un-observable, un-verifiable so-called theories again) and then there was a place for the biological to just happen. And yes there are creation scientists (they do in fact have degrees in science) that understand how the physical world came to be and they even study it with an eye toward "proving" that what we see is not incompatible with Scripture. Study of flood geology, rate of decay, light speed, etc.

Your "argument" is similar to one tried a few years ago by a scientist. It did not wash then, it does not wash now.

 

[H2Andy]

Green, you and i live in very different worlds...

but that's ok, it all comes to the same

 

[MikeFerrara]

Cool. In that case, I'm going to go out and kill the people who piss me off, and then I'm going to sleep with the neighbor's wife.

Oh, and then I'll be sincerely sorry for it and ask forgiveness.

The point you may be missing is that you've already done it. If you're like the rest of us and have hated or lusted, you're probably already guilty of those sins (and plenty more) and are already just as in need of forgiveness as if you had phisically done it. The Biblical point is that there isn't anything good enough that you can do on your own to pay for it. Jesus did it for you. He defeated deah, sin and Satan because you can't. That payment will work just as well whether your a murderer with your hands or in your heart as long as you believe, take Christ into your heart and are reborn in him.

A serious question, then: Christianity teaches that Jesus is coming back, someday: (and he told the apostles that he would be back before the end of the age. I guess he missed that appointment.) But if Jesus were to return to Earth, which church would he join? Which one would received his mark of approval? Personally, I think he'd be pretty shocked, and even horrified at the religion of Christianity.

Read Matthew 24 or Mark 13...Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angles in heaven, nor even the Son, but only the father" He didn't miss any appointment.

Which Church would he join? He'll be the one ruling. I have a hard time with the book of Revelation but I think it's clear that some of the churches are in trouble and He means to clean house. When the rapture does come I'm guessing there will be plenty of prominent members of prominent churches left behind right along with all those who never even pretended to believe.

I don't think he'll be shocked or horrified. He knows exactly what is happening and what will happen. But...why do you think He'll be shocked and horrified at the "religion of Christianity"?

 

[Green_Manelishi]

mike, i think if Jesus saw the collective wealth of your average American church,
he wold be horrified at what could be done with it and isnt being done.

rememer the "sell all you have and give it to the poor" bit?

Yes, to the rich man. But again you take out of context. What was the complete text ... "sell all that you have ... and come, follow me."

Of course, in law, only an false statement is bad. Leaving out something that might harm the case is not bad.

 

[H2Andy]

when did you sell all you had, Green, and gave it to the poor?

seems like you're saying it's a pre-requisite to following Jesus

so are you admitting you don't follow Jesus?



(and again with the law thing... jeez... even though you claimed
earlier my profession mattered not ... good thing i'm not a
hog slaughterer or we'd be in pig lard up to our knees)

 

[Green_Manelishi]

for sure less than a million years old, though, right?

I'd bet my life on it.

Nothing in the physical world requires a million+ years to be what is observed. Evolution, or cosmology, assumes to have taken that long because it's all just an accident and much time would be required for it to have accidentally happened.

Would you like an example of circular logic that "proves" it's millions and billions of years old?

Again, in another post; creation scientists have studied decay rate of various stuff (including our beloved Helium), the 'constant' of light speed, sedimentation rates, etc. and the physical world does not contradict the Bible.

 

[H2Andy]

Again, in another post; creation scientists have studied decay rate of various stuff (including our beloved Helium), the 'constant' of light speed, sedimentation rates, etc. and the physical world does not contradict the Bible.

wow...

so a T. Rex bone that is about 80 million years old, how do you accont for that?

and i'm not talking about one or two... i'm talking about hundreds, all with consistent
radio-carbon dates

(and please spare me the few errors made while the technique was being
developed, which are always trotted out as "proof" that radio carbon dating
doesn't work)